Nato Symbols - how to achieve

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Patatone
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Nato Symbols - how to achieve

Post by Patatone »

Hi, I wish to explore the possibility to create a nato symbol mod. I guess, the simpler way to do this is to create an obj file and than convert to cmo? so, in game symbols are created as a quite flat 3d model? is there a better or simpler way to achieve this? thank you
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Balthagor
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Re: Nato Symbols - how to achieve

Post by Balthagor »

You could reuse the "flatmesh.cmo" object I guess, but your NATO counters will rotate as units move around.
Chris Latour
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Patatone
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Re: Nato Symbols - how to achieve

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Balthagor wrote: Sep 18 2023 You could reuse the "flatmesh.cmo" object I guess, but your NATO counters will rotate as units move around.
thank you for quick response. I'll make some test. The rotating thing it will be a problem, maybe is there a way to avoid it...mmmm. thanks
Nerei
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Re: Nato Symbols - how to achieve

Post by Nerei »

Create a custom polygonal plane and ensure it is facing the player when set as MeshType 3 (no rotation). Beyond ships and planes wobbling a bit at times it should prevent any kind of rotation.
Patatone
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Re: Nato Symbols - how to achieve

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Nerei wrote: Sep 19 2023 Create a custom polygonal plane and ensure it is facing the player when set as MeshType 3 (no rotation). Beyond ships and planes wobbling a bit at times it should prevent any kind of rotation.
Thank you! I Will check this out
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Balthagor
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Re: Nato Symbols - how to achieve

Post by Balthagor »

Nerei wrote: Sep 19 2023 Create a custom polygonal plane and ensure it is facing the player when set as MeshType 3 (no rotation). Beyond ships and planes wobbling a bit at times it should prevent any kind of rotation.
Oh yeah, I forgot we had that option. Thanks Nerei.
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Patatone
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Re: Nato Symbols - how to achieve

Post by Patatone »

It Works! thank you for your support.
here fist test results:
Screenshot 2023-09-24 215003.jpg
Screenshot 2023-09-24 232735.jpg
just Med tank, MEch arty and Mech Inf. no rotation.

Please let me know:

1. why Black lines became grey - washed out - ingame?

2. Do you have some suggestion about graphic/colors/size etc.?

3. Extra info: What about Square based symbols, is there a possibility to include some extra info inside?

here a quick note. It would be great add info as Strenght, speed, direction.
hp.jpg
any ideas? how to fix strenght bar in the box?

4. development. I think I have to follow this path:
- match in excel existing units --> nato model
- create base Nato symbols;
- replace naming in default.unit.
and, later, maybe add an extra info to symbols, unit level. As example, 1990 Mech inf can be numbered as lev.X, 1995 lev XI, 2000 Lev XII etc. this is going to complicate things a lot. What is you opionion about?

a plause to you guys and Nerei, Now I understand the huge effort creating 3d units, I became crazy just in creating three elementary symbols.
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Nerei
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Re: Nato Symbols - how to achieve

Post by Nerei »

Odds are the washed out colour is either due to the material settings in the obj file or the way the textures are saved.
Check if there is a specularity (Ks) value in the accompanying .mtl (material) file and ensure the textures are not saved with sRGB colour information.
Both can give a washed out appearance.


Directions you "might" be able to do handle by putting a direction arrow into the model and have it as a regular (meshtype 2) mesh object. That will be affected by unit directions.
Think a bit like a tank where the hull points in whatever direction the unit is moving (or last moved) while the turret is always pointing towards the player.

I would be careful with putting too much information onto the icon. If you put too much odds are it will become illegible at all but the lowest zoom.
There is also the limit that textures are static so any information you add will be permanent.
You could in theory say write what the hardware is but I fear that would quickly reach the illegible state.

With that limitation in mind my initial focus would be on just converting NATO icons to Supreme Ruler as there is a lot of classes NATO icons really do not cover to a standard that works with Supreme Ruler. The prime cases being air and navy.

A tier system is a good idea to the point where I would call it mandatory as you also want players to be able to tell the difference between say a T-62 obr 1967 and M1A2 SepV3 Abrams at a glance as they probably warrant different responses.
Likewise you probably in some cases might want to subdivide categories. Again looking at armour but going back in time this time consider that a bit over 8 tonne Type 4 Ke-nu light tank and 68 tonne Tiger II would probably be roughly the same tier but again your reaction to them is probably not the same.


Also you do not need to make a model for each type of unit. Make a single model that works properly and just make multiple entries for it in default.picnums using the texture override function to assign new textures. Most likely TextureOverride2.

As for colours I would say keep it simple. You are not going to be able to say make enemy icons red rhomboids while yours and your allies are rectangular blue boxes. You can give icons a national colour code so say US is blue, China is red and Russia is white but that is really the extend of it.
The black and white you have right now is probably close to the easiest to read you can get so I would say that is a good thing to stick with.
Patatone
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Re: Nato Symbols - how to achieve

Post by Patatone »

Nerei wrote: Sep 25 2023 Odds are the washed out colour is either due to the material settings in the obj file or the way the textures are saved.
Check if there is a specularity (Ks) value in the accompanying .mtl (material) file and ensure the textures are not saved with sRGB colour information.
Both can give a washed out appearance.


Directions you "might" be able to do handle by putting a direction arrow into the model and have it as a regular (meshtype 2) mesh object. That will be affected by unit directions.
Think a bit like a tank where the hull points in whatever direction the unit is moving (or last moved) while the turret is always pointing towards the player.

I would be careful with putting too much information onto the icon. If you put too much odds are it will become illegible at all but the lowest zoom.
There is also the limit that textures are static so any information you add will be permanent.
You could in theory say write what the hardware is but I fear that would quickly reach the illegible state.

With that limitation in mind my initial focus would be on just converting NATO icons to Supreme Ruler as there is a lot of classes NATO icons really do not cover to a standard that works with Supreme Ruler. The prime cases being air and navy.

A tier system is a good idea to the point where I would call it mandatory as you also want players to be able to tell the difference between say a T-62 obr 1967 and M1A2 SepV3 Abrams at a glance as they probably warrant different responses.
Likewise you probably in some cases might want to subdivide categories. Again looking at armour but going back in time this time consider that a bit over 8 tonne Type 4 Ke-nu light tank and 68 tonne Tiger II would probably be roughly the same tier but again your reaction to them is probably not the same.


Also you do not need to make a model for each type of unit. Make a single model that works properly and just make multiple entries for it in default.picnums using the texture override function to assign new textures. Most likely TextureOverride2.

As for colours I would say keep it simple. You are not going to be able to say make enemy icons red rhomboids while yours and your allies are rectangular blue boxes. You can give icons a national colour code so say US is blue, China is red and Russia is white but that is really the extend of it.
The black and white you have right now is probably close to the easiest to read you can get so I would say that is a good thing to stick with.
Thank you so much for these precious informations.

Odds are the washed out colour is either due to the material settings in the obj file or the way the textures are saved.
Check if there is a specularity (Ks) value in the accompanying .mtl (material) file and ensure the textures are not saved with sRGB colour information.
Both can give a washed out appearance.


ok I'll take a look.

Directions you "might" be able to do handle by putting a direction arrow into the model and have it as a regular (meshtype 2) mesh object. That will be affected by unit directions.
Think a bit like a tank where the hull points in whatever direction the unit is moving (or last moved) while the turret is always pointing towards the player.


this is a good news, I'll try it out. This is a game changer.

With that limitation in mind my initial focus would be on just converting NATO icons to Supreme Ruler as there is a lot of classes NATO icons really do not cover to a standard that works with Supreme Ruler. The prime cases being air and navy.


ok, I 'm thinking about, at first, keep 3d icons for Navy and air and than switching to a design of a silohuette for them, as example from FC:SS: look at tanks

https://www.matrixgames.com/images/scre ... 488083.jpg

but this solutions needs a LOT of work.

A tier system is a good idea to the point where I would call it mandatory as you also want players to be able to tell the difference between say a T-62 obr 1967 and M1A2 SepV3 Abrams at a glance as they probably warrant different responses.
Likewise you probably in some cases might want to subdivide categories. Again looking at armour but going back in time this time consider that a bit over 8 tonne Type 4 Ke-nu light tank and 68 tonne Tiger II would probably be roughly the same tier but again your reaction to them is probably not the same.


ok, maybe a mixed approach (silhouettes for Navy, air, tanks), but this is a real complication.

Also you do not need to make a model for each type of unit. Make a single model that works properly and just make multiple entries for it in default.picnums using the texture override function to assign new textures. Most likely TextureOverride2.

ok, I need to study a bit more for understanding this line, but I'll try out.


As for colours I would say keep it simple. You are not going to be able to say make enemy icons red rhomboids while yours and your allies are rectangular blue boxes. You can give icons a national colour code so say US is blue, China is red and Russia is white but that is really the extend of it.
The black and white you have right now is probably close to the easiest to read you can get so I would say that is a good thing to stick with.


I agree.

is there a workaround for keeping 3d unit inside the unit details box while using nato symbols on map? I don't think so, what do you think about?
Patatone
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Re: Nato Symbols - how to achieve

Post by Patatone »

Nerei wrote: Sep 25 2023 You can give icons a national colour code so say US is blue, China is red and Russia is white but that is really the extend of it.
is possibile to achieve this adding Region Codes in file name (AE UNIT926U.dds would create a regional texture for any units of that type used by the USA) or is there another way to do it? thank you
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