Limits on planetary invasions

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Limits on planetary invasions

Post by Balthagor »

Based on feedback from users on invasions (much of it from Tkobo) we've had some discussions about the invasion mechanics. The latest idea is to limit space craft drops to "flat hexes" - No cities, mountains or forests.

Thoughts?

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Re: Limits on planetary invasions

Post by youssef »

Why big spaceships?
you don't see Amphibious assault ships go up to land to unload their troops? they use helicopters and small boats for that in an assault.
I think that this is how planetary invasions should work by landing helicopter transport and unload their troops and the enemy can counter it by having AA guns.
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Re: Limits on planetary invasions

Post by tkobo »

I like the idea of small landing ships coming out of a space transport carrying troops to the surface.The small transports could be carried like space fighters and do the actual landing ,which would solve some of the as of yet unmentioned issues with the large transports.

But i dont think thats the issues the devs are trying to solve.I do think its something that should be considered a great suggestion...and not just because if this was added it would increase the chance of space fighters being made able to enter the planet :P

I dont think the above mentioned suggestions for limiting space transport landing locations will work though as the game is currently. Right now,you can build a new urban population building in pretty much any non-water hex .Its currently a great way to grow a colony planet,making it much harder to capture it right off the bat.

How crazy would it be to limit to and create a system for landings to only be doable in ocean hexes until supply is established on land hexes ? It could be considered that once a land hex had supply enough was known about it to locate safe landing spots for huge spacecraft .

*space transports carrying huge amounts of troops would have to be very large and very heavy even before you factor in the men and equipment.
-so how would you know where was safe to put the damn things down ? Ground tends to compress and even collapse when a new extremely heavy weight is newly added to it.Strip malls are notorious for Subsidence ,and thats on ground thats been prepared for the building.
-Land susceptible to sink holes ,land over underground mines, marsh lands ,swamps, underground water sources,sand,etc...
- fires set off by the landings
-the land would be best if completely flat in the landing area.Not a very common trait for land.
etc..

BUT if the space transports were sea worthy,all that goes away.Landing in one patch of deep ocean is pretty much the same as landing in another patch of deep ocean.
-it greatly removes the space transport troop jump method from city to city,making most of the rest of the map inconsequential .
-It makes naval units extremely important, where now you can pretty much ignore them.
-it makes a heck of a lot more sense when it comes to remoteness for the landing
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
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Re: Limits on planetary invasions

Post by tkobo »

between the air units and the artillery of the AI jumping on the transports, most people who try the ignore map,jump troops to city strategy of taking a planet are going to lose a lot of transports. Maybe enough to serious;y gimp that strategy...

I think a lot of homeworlds are going to end up looking like Coruscant/some hive world, with the planet almost completely covered with towns and facilities,if not completely covered...so i think even more that method of blocking invasion landers simply wont work, as the entire land on said worlds will end up covered by such leaving no place for an invasion to actually land.
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
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Re: Limits on planetary invasions

Post by Fistalis »

tkobo wrote: Apr 14 2021 I like the idea of small landing ships coming out of a space transport carrying troops to the surface.The small transports could be carried like space fighters and do the actual landing ,which would solve some of the as of yet unmentioned issues with the large transports.

But i dont think thats the issues the devs are trying to solve.I do think its something that should be considered a great suggestion...and not just because if this was added it would increase the chance of space fighters being made able to enter the planet :P

I dont think the above mentioned suggestions for limiting space transport landing locations will work though as the game is currently. Right now,you can build a new urban population building in pretty much any non-water hex .Its currently a great way to grow a colony planet,making it much harder to capture it right off the bat.

How crazy would it be to limit to and create a system for landings to only be doable in ocean hexes until supply is established on land hexes ? It could be considered that once a land hex had supply enough was known about it to locate safe landing spots for huge spacecraft .

*space transports carrying huge amounts of troops would have to be very large and very heavy even before you factor in the men and equipment.
-so how would you know where was safe to put the damn things down ? Ground tends to compress and even collapse when a new extremely heavy weight is newly added to it.Strip malls are notorious for Subsidence ,and thats on ground thats been prepared for the building.
-Land susceptible to sink holes ,land over underground mines, marsh lands ,swamps, underground water sources,sand,etc...
- fires set off by the landings
-the land would be best if completely flat in the landing area.Not a very common trait for land.
etc..

BUT if the space transports were sea worthy,all that goes away.Landing in one patch of deep ocean is pretty much the same as landing in another patch of deep ocean.
-it greatly removes the space transport troop jump method from city to city,making most of the rest of the map inconsequential .
-It makes naval units extremely important, where now you can pretty much ignore them.
-it makes a heck of a lot more sense when it comes to remoteness for the landing
*restraint breaks* Okay i've been avoiding the convos for the most part since I haven't played but.. we're completely ignoring atmospheric pressure here. "Sea level" is going to be completely different on diff planets and atmospheres. Yes plopping down in one ocean on one planet is the same as plopping down on another ocean on the same planet.. but once your comparing different planets that all goes out the window. A high gravity dense atmosphere planet is not the same as a low gravity thin atmosphere and ships designed for the vacuum of space are not guaranteed to be built for either.

And even then we're still ignoring the molecular make up of the water itself. Just because it floats on the dead sea doesn't mean it will float on any sea.. and just because it can go submerged 1000 ft down in regular water doesn't mean the dead sea won't crush it at that depth.

Point is we can try to make it realistic or we can make it fun.. but using one as an excuse for another is just fooling yourself and isn't gonna help anyone. At some point you just gotta draw a line and focus on fixing the gameplay which is where my input is useless at this point. You can hand wave anything away if you want but this isn't a simulator and if we want it to be then there is way too much missing. I would think that any changes/fixes are focused on gameplay at this point considering any physics/simulation aspects would need to be considered in the initial design of EVERYTHING.

At this point in the cycle "because the AI can handle it" or "It's more fun" are completely valid answers to why we need any changes/fixes no need to try to rationalize it with any science.

Okay i feel better i'll show myself to my corner.
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Re: Limits on planetary invasions

Post by tkobo »

this conversation IS about fixing gameplay. Right now there a HUGE flaw in the way planetary invasions can work.A flaw so huge it will make player vs player invasions an unmanageable nightmare, and remove much of the gameplay from invasions of npc worlds.
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
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Re: Limits on planetary invasions

Post by tkobo »

Im going to put this here,even though it could fit in a few threads.

I was thinking about the testing i did on stealth invasions, and it occurred to me, you could solve that and few other issues with invasions just by making the space transports "take land" when they land.If the ai continues to jump on units it sees taking land as strongly as it currently does, esp art and air,this would prevent stealth invasions ,limit the amount of times a player could land his transports next to a city (as the units in/by the city would pound them the instant they landed) ,and make invasions a bit more punishing for the player.
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
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