The myth

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Rosalis
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The myth

Post by Rosalis »

Another short AAR, showing another issue. This time is ai building, or rather ai NOT building. Also you might question the easy road in which UN dominate the world.

SW2020 Region UN

Standard settings except:
victory condition capital (spending time showing issues)
Initial funds no new bonds (prevent lots of bankrupt regions, ai will try and mostly succeed having a possitive treasury.
Loyalty penalties OFF (to show another issue)
Start game without national debt (giving all regions the same condition, bonds actually improve gdp/c, ofcourse too much, well is too much and ai doesnt know)
Diplomatic marine is off, i dont like playing with on, but i could have chosen either way, doesnt mather if Netherlands got WW2 troops in Africa.
Battle of atlantic, obviously off, altho its prolly broken for 2020.
Road/rail removal tool, on. I wont remove much roads if any, but i want to keep the possibility open incase i get overrun. Scorch earth tactics will always win. Never lost a war in SRU.

The rest is standard, so very hard military difficulty, very high volatility and normal economy+diplomacy. I could have easily chosen no units and get 1000x easier game, but already capital victory, so yeah still want to bring up an issue.

Objective:
1: get good designs asap, to 'liberate' the world from whatever. UN already got good designs tho...more soon.
2: After annexation each region will be fully scrapped of production buildings, goods and military, plus research centers, etc. Only leaving atleat 1 barrack, airbase and if possible a sea port. The main infrastructure the ai will need to run a military (you would think).
3: After 2 is complete, region will be liberated or colonised
4: Altho i play with NO loyalty penalties (i guess) all production facilities will be build in loyal territory of UN.

More soon with war on Cuba

So heres my prediction. AI will not build anything but research centers. CG despite soon being depleted for most regions, the price will not rise much, plus the cost stay in 15% range of profit. Very annoying but i will have to adjust the price manually to maintain the +-15% profit. If only this was a feature, like i always want 12% profit. Or compared to rl, 6% for bulk and 20% for more rare products.

For this project i will also ignore CB, so my treaty integrity gonna tank hard, but im not worried and i will show why.
Rosalis
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Re: The myth

Post by Rosalis »

Januari 12 2020, UN capture Santiago de Cuba. Wether i waited 3 months or not it doesnt mather. Cuba wont deploy troops/garrisons there. Actually Cuba start with 0 troops in SW and only got mounted infantry design it can produce after having fought wars across other continents. In other words, this is not Cuba, but western propaganda.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11D2Z8z ... sp=sharing

Jan 22-2020
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S6tfj9 ... sp=sharing
Cuba is UN territory, for now atleast. As said scrapping industry then gonna colonise since i can use the 2 land fabs and spies, ofcourse the airbase also doesnt hurt basicly making Cuba a good invasion point for the states. Besides that they were willing to give a bunch of techs for free.

The next war gonna be against Sicily, knowing how important this area is in the map, this will be a big priority. The naval production will also be usefull. Meanwhile i will build more marines, light infantry and combat engineers. It wont be easy so im mobilising all usefull units for the war in Malta. My main concern is sub(s) that can kill reinforcements if needed. Luckily i have some ships and asw patrol planes. The airfield will only be able to hold so much tho. Airbase in Malta being build to be sure. This invasion gets me worried, but i will gain lots of techs if i colonise them. Getting all troops in position is taking alot of time tho. Ships getting out of suply across the world with 1 transportship suplying them. Wonder if i went to agressive from the start.
Im not able to trade at a good price anymore after the war with Cuba. Oh well.

Soon more with war on Sicily. Cuba will be colonised in the next save.
Rosalis
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Re: The myth

Post by Rosalis »

I kinda wanted another asw patrol boat in position, but its already taking too long to my liking.
July 15 2020 Dow on Sicily
https://drive.google.com/file/d/166gmgf ... sp=sharing
Aug 18 2020 Sicily is now UN territory. With 7 units lost this was way to expensive to my liking. I should have either declared sooner when there was less garrisons and deployed missiles, or build up more infantry in Africa but oh well on the long run it will be fine. Like i said this is a very important position, cause you can either invade europe and scrap industry for IG or invade africa to get more good demand from population.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pxeksy ... sp=sharing
This one cost me too much time tho, time to take on easier targets in Africa and get a bunch of infantry made in conquered land fabrications. On the bright side i gained a carrier and ofcourse my f16 survived the war.

More soon
Rosalis
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Re: The myth

Post by Rosalis »

48m 3 techs and a cpl of designs was enough to convince St Petersburg to give me CG-1134 Kreste II Capital ship (great AA) and DDG-956 Sovremennyy Unit designs. Not a bad deal i would say.

Sep 8 2020 UN DOW on Western Sahara
Sep 11 2020 Western Sahara is UN territory for now

Sep25 2020 DOW on Mauritania
Okt27 DOW Senegal
Nov30 2020 DOW Gambia
Dec7 2020 DOW Guinea-Bissau
Dec17 2020 DOW Guinea

31-12-2020
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17IleQo ... sp=sharing
Breakdown check:
England, Paris, Marseille, West Germany, East Germany, South Germany. Northern China, Southern China, Manchuria, North Korea, South Korea, Japan, texas, California...

NO building except all found money to build research center.

Lemme know if you find someone building goods or military buildings.

Soon more.
Rosalis
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Re: The myth

Post by Rosalis »

Jan 10 2021 DOW Sierra Leone
Jan 26 2021 DOW Liberia
Feb 5 2021 DOW Mali
Feb 20 2021 DOW Cote d'Ivoire
Mar 10 2021 DOW Burkina Faso
Mar 29 2021 DOW Ghana
Apr 24 2021 DOW Togo
May 3 2021 DOW Niger
May 14 2021 DOW Benin
May 24 Algeria DOW on me, not worried at all, they wont have the suply, ill just bleed their units. Also ignoring defence of Sicily, confident they wont invade there. Just poking with their patrol boats, useless.

However i was about to DOW on Nigeria. Im gonna leave minimal defence there on the border and DOW on Morroco instead. Plenty of descent infantry by now.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17-y8CN ... sp=sharing
Rosalis
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Re: The myth

Post by Rosalis »

907, 435 city of Zinder, build barrack, because battlezone bug prevent scrap/repair order.

June 11 DOW on Morocco
Aug 14 Algeria annexed for now. Free interceptors, artillery, aa, bmp3. Although the desert seems nice and sunny, lets regroup at Constantine and move east. Would be nice if i can take control over the Suez.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fDWnFJ ... sp=sharing
Rosalis
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Re: The myth

Post by Rosalis »

Aug22 2021 DOW Tunesia
Sep 8 2021 DOW Libya
Sep 21 2021 Libya annexed, for now.

This was kinda tricky but their land missiles only killed 1 light infantry and 1 shilka aa, so whatever. Gained a bunch of air again, 1 fully repaired backfire strategic bomber not bad.

Also stopped land production a while back, so lets scrap these, liberate the regions and see what we get in the future huh?

At the end of the year ill check GLOBAL GEOPOLITICAL production again, but yeah who will be surprised?

A fast check learns us that Southern China with 6 wars, produce no new good or military buildings, but now we are on to building 4 research centers.
Northern China with 11 wars, well 3 research centers and no new buildings. So yeah, wonder under what circumstances ai actually build. Since im not seeing it. My treaty intergrity wont go lower then 44% and i can buy everything i need scrapping every good facility i conquer. You would think by now my economy or military need to recover, but nah. Game was to "slow". And yeah cant have 4-5 regions declare on a player. Then it will be too hard huh? Maybe majority like a challenge, ever thought about that? Hardest military difficulty btw. Didnt even take 2 years to get the 2nd biggest military production in the world starting from nothing. Not that i tried. Like i said gonna scrap every land production in Africa. Got enough infantry for now.
22 september 2021:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qe49Zf ... sp=sharing

Next up we gonna split up our forces. Some will be invading Egypt, some will prepare an invasion on Florida. Cause yeah being next to the most agressive player and not building land fabs, thats just disrespectfull.
Rosalis
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Re: The myth

Post by Rosalis »

West Germany declared war on Romania, already know whats gonna happen. West Germany gonna grow huge very fast when im busy in the states. Not born yesterday.

For this i start land production on Sicily, since its still my colony and will prolly stay my colony for a long time, if i dont annex them, Sicily usually ends up being my main military hub, so we will see. Gonna entrench the infantry i dont have designs myself, which gonna be easier to handle units deployed.

Colonised Algeria and Morocco to get a cpl of techs before i liberated them. I guess the T-3 Regal design is also nice, since its free. Not gonna need it tho. The loss in 3 research productions seems a bad idea, but i dont need it. Infact Indonesia is already making 4 research productions on Oct 3 2021, lets see how that war goes with all those islands later.

Traded k19 AA for 3 techs with Moscow, will still do the job in 2020. Not against California, but i suspect the rest of US states wont pose much threat and i can always look for better later.

Nov 8 2021 DOW on Egypt

First few days was spend destroying Egyptian navy poking the borders with my airforce, why i didnt colonise Libya yet, because else those naval borders would be transfered to me at the end of the war, if there are still ships left maintaining magic suply for the AI. Not that it mathers, but oh well. We will see border gore later if you want or not.
Whats left of my navy, well the ships i cared about, was send back to the caribean to deal with Florida later. Didnt want to loose them in this dispute. Subs would be easy kill, but yeah only got 1 old sub.

Dec 24 2021 the day before christmas day ment an end to the war. With very experienced troops. It would be silly not to wait with invading Florida before these troops arrive. I dont need them but since this is not a d*ck contest, lets just be smart. Transport elite troops to the carribean and the rest to Sicily so i can liberate North Africa.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JxklyS ... sp=sharing

Look at those F16 sitting there, subs, everything i ever wanted. Also check how i do most my repairs. Entrenched on a barrack or city. Before i needed them they were repaired again. Pretty sure this save alot of MG, and with battlezone bug you never know when your troops want to listen. Maybe that youtube guy should come back and ask for better designs instead of military complexes this time. Even more presents. We also got the border gore tho, im bordering Israel and Suez gained a bunch of territory, so luckily we are not roleplaying and dont care about treaty integrity. Also notice Israel gained a bunch of loyal territory while it wasnt even at war.

Well about AI building, basicly everyone is up to 3 research centers, and thats it. If you can prove something different go ahead speak up. Goods market is just a farce. Egypt same story, was building 3 research centers and thats it.

Another reported bug that never got fixed, check naval border next to suez after running the game cpl of days. Gonna have to declare war if i want to get rid of them. Sadly new ones will just arrive, so lets not go crazy.
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Balthagor
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Re: The myth

Post by Balthagor »

Rosalis wrote: Jan 24 2022... If you can prove something different go ahead speak up...
Sure, here you go;

I started as Australia. Set up my ministers, took a savegame, then let it run for about 2 hours. Came back after 2 hours and found that India had build a military complex, a barracks, a land production, and has 2 agri facilities in construction;
build1.jpg
build2.jpg
build3.JPG
build4.JPG
build5.JPG
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Chris Latour
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Rosalis
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Re: The myth

Post by Rosalis »

Thats not from my save games, you want to keep it on topic here? Or do you want to prove something from your version of the game? I wont be surprised if something went wrong with pushing the final update, or office version and user version, but yeah, lets find out shall we?
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Balthagor
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Re: The myth

Post by Balthagor »

Rosalis wrote: Jan 22 2022 ...This time is ai building, or rather ai NOT building...
I am on topic. You claimed the AI doesn't build. I just proved that the AI does build.
Chris Latour
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Rosalis
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Re: The myth

Post by Rosalis »

Not in this topic, atleast not from the post you first quoted. In this topic i claimed ai wont build in my save game. This is an AAR you know. Very rare in SRU i know.

All these things must hurt as developper, but throwing others off in an AAR report, maybe mobile games indeed fits you better. You could just have posted this in the issue topic to throw people off. There, yes i asked to provide evidence. Here i ask to present evidence from these save games.
evildari
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Re: The myth

Post by evildari »

Balthagor wrote: Jan 24 2022
Rosalis wrote: Jan 22 2022 ...This time is ai building, or rather ai NOT building...
I am on topic. You claimed the AI doesn't build. I just proved that the AI does build.
sorry Rosalis for hijacking, but i think it fits here:

i claim that the program does not build the more useful items like:
supply depot, airfield (without being the forced attachment of an airfab), military goods,

also never seen but then i did not look out for these items being produced by the program:
industrial goods, any mine (coal, metal, uranium), rubber plantation / synth.rubber, fixed defenses & radar, missile silo.

can you provide examples for each of these being build by any non-player-regions?

in my experiences i see the program build an almost insane amount of research labs(although good in my mods, its bad in vanilla game), quit a lot of unit fabrication (thats the only positive point here), and very very few agricultural building (just food, no rubber)
in your example this is the so called drop in the ocean
especially with that insanse automatic production adjustment.

i know SRU is lost - but you are probably developing future games in this franchise - so maybe there is hope
my mods
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=25932 (even techs and units for everyone - AI will own you too)
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=29326 (MARSX2)
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Balthagor
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Re: The myth

Post by Balthagor »

evildari wrote: Jan 29 2022 ...but you are probably developing future games in this franchise...
We certainly are developing future titles, we've already said that after GR we'll be making a Supreme Ruler Next Generation (we really need to figure out that title...)

First, I've stated previously that the AI does not build supply depots, airfield, sea piers (it builds airports/sea porst for fabrication), fixed defenses & radar, missile silos or espionage buildings.

I did provide an example of agri, but I didn't take a save, just screenshots. I'd have to restart the game to do more testing, but all I really did was start the game, let it run for ~2hrs, then started looking around. When you select the hex of a region, the land department allows you to look at a list of their facilities by type and you can filter to "in construction". The agri I found was actually by accident while looking for the land fabrication. I'm not sure I'll spend more time on this thread. This thread is too toxic for my taste. My goal was to make it clear that the claim made in this thread that "AI builds nothing but research centres" was false.
Chris Latour
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Rosalis
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Re: The myth

Post by Rosalis »

Dec 28 2021 DOW on Suez
Build 1 air production in Sicily, this will make it safer to store aircraft then in Malta, where they can just be sniped by ships. Soon we will fly thru aviation techs and why not be ready for it.
Jan 24 2022 Egypt is once again "independent", with Suez under UN control. No doubt Israel will declare war on Egypt, if they dont sell their military, but we will see. Maybe the smarter move here would be colonising Israel for the techs, but already set my mind on the states.
The airforce left loaded up in 2 new acquired carriers to finish of the redeployment to the Carribean. Maybe that would be a bigger challenge, not building any troops, just do with what you capture, but then again i could just liberate them with 10 air production and no land production.

I noticed Sicily got some oil derricks i forgot, but oh well, i will show you what colonies can really do later. You thought you couldnt print money?

So heres the plan for Florida, (if you want to know):
7 experienced marines in NASSAU are gonna take Miami Beach.
Get air superiority in the mean time, they got anti ship missiles.
First batch of 7 IOF-2 will get order entrench MIAMI, if you take HOLLYWOOD, you can not order your aircraft cloose to their or they will try to land there blowing up your planes in miliseconds.
The best thing to control is the middle road towards PEMBROKE PINES so best to send your aircraft there, when you go for refuel, empty the bombs of the others by sending them north and return to base. Hurt units got 1st priority, but ofcourse it doesnt hurt to slow down their advance.
Then i flood in IOF-2 Infantry, 7 at a time. There is also 7 more marines reserved in NASSAU. After that we can send in the rest of infantry, not that it is needed. Their Airforce should be repairing or stopping orders because of half health, so yeah.
If you can control PEMBROKE PINES, its easy win, cause the ai will use the central road.
Our navy is just gonna chill in the Bahamas at Freeport, when they get in position.

Feb27 2022 DOW Florida
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1reFVfK ... sp=sharing
1.1 garrison in MIAMI BEACH, nice, i guess. Just like that we got a way in. Now if you play along and you see 1 of the marines getting hurt, sea transport them and they are a full strength merchant marine, easily able to get out.
March 4 2022
Air force is down and no land units in sight. Just a mather of getting to their capital. Mind you if i had more/better transport planes i could just have landed on the capital, but yeah we will get those transport planes later for free.
Since we are doing our best to prevent global warming, lets scrap the space stuff at KENNEDY SPACE CENTER. We can always do that later, just another player only option.

Mar19 2022 Florida surrendered
Got cpl of transport planes and 2 tanks, not much, i went hard on them with my air force. Losses on my side: 0. I gained some nice ships tho.

Forgot to liberate Libya and Mauritania, but as you can see, from west Benin, to north Benin, every liberated region is happy with what they got, for now.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18h9MW3 ... sp=sharing

Next up, well ofcourse we gonna take more states. Only regions im worried about are Texas and California.
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