Cites with garrisons and artillery are very strong!

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Zome
Sergeant
Posts: 11
Joined: Sep 04 2018
Human: Yes

Cites with garrisons and artillery are very strong!

Post by Zome »

I've been playing SRU for about 2 years, though I would like to address a few things that make the game a bit boring for me.

Garrisons are fine by themselves when they are in facilities outside of cities, but the defensive terrain and close combat buffs inside cities are too strong. Almost all of my wars end up in a stalemate due to garrison spam on both sides. I can't really think it's realistic when garrisons inside cities are stronger than when they are inside forts. It's very frustrating that a "small village" of 2000 people hold out against my army of 13000 and manage to kill tanks, infantry and artillery 16km away with ease. It's also not realistic that small villages and cities have the same defensive buffs. I mean, how can a small village have the same defensive buffs as a metropolis with 10 million people?

Despite all this, an even bigger problem is big city clusters with full garrisons that protect artillery. Taking something like Tokyo is almost impossible when your opponent has hundreds of garrisons with 3/4 green bars of stats and artillery hiding behind it that doesn't have a damage limit in a single hex. I hope the devs look into it or at least give some advice on how to counter this spam. :D
Rosalis
Colonel
Posts: 417
Joined: Sep 07 2019
Human: Yes

Re: Cites with garrisons and artillery are very strong!

Post by Rosalis »

Compared to SR2020 where metropolis would give good defence and small city much less this is another example where balance seems to make room for "speed improvements". I was just easily able to defend north korea with early cw stuff in 2020 against south korea just by entrenching some o pop cities and build some trenches. Meanwhile i was actually playing another region and just played North Korea for a couple of days. Infact in 1 save the world is pretty much in WW3 focus but i defended every single nation just by entrenching troops, so yeah i agree fully, game becomes boring when there is no winner. Little tweaks like this would make the game more interesting, but good luck convincing the devs.

But i see you have a player problem, the problem to spam is make your own spam and kill theirs when their infantry and tanks are repairing. The B2 spirit is another solution. Stealth bomber usually get away unnoticed, if you bleed their interceptor force first. In clustered cities special forces are key. On youtube you see alot of people attacking with tanks that get out of fuel very quickly, you need to pay attention to those specific stats. Cloose combat is nr1. I use tanks more for defence and to take the punches from artillery while still holding the line. Against a stronger opponent you just need to attack at the right moment and retreat again to regain supply. Those troops you kill will go a long way. So thats another tactic, dont rush towards those clusteres areas but fight them in the open and retreat to cities or trenches when needed.
Zome
Sergeant
Posts: 11
Joined: Sep 04 2018
Human: Yes

Re: Cites with garrisons and artillery are very strong!

Post by Zome »

Rosalis wrote: Mar 27 2021 Compared to SR2020 where metropolis would give good defence and small city much less this is another example where balance seems to make room for "speed improvements". I was just easily able to defend north korea with early cw stuff in 2020 against south korea just by entrenching some o pop cities and build some trenches. Meanwhile i was actually playing another region and just played North Korea for a couple of days. Infact in 1 save the world is pretty much in WW3 focus but i defended every single nation just by entrenching troops, so yeah i agree fully, game becomes boring when there is no winner. Little tweaks like this would make the game more interesting, but good luck convincing the devs.

But i see you have a player problem, the problem to spam is make your own spam and kill theirs when their infantry and tanks are repairing. The B2 spirit is another solution. Stealth bomber usually get away unnoticed, if you bleed their interceptor force first. In clustered cities special forces are key. On youtube you see alot of people attacking with tanks that get out of fuel very quickly, you need to pay attention to those specific stats. Cloose combat is nr1. I use tanks more for defence and to take the punches from artillery while still holding the line. Against a stronger opponent you just need to attack at the right moment and retreat again to regain supply. Those troops you kill will go a long way. So thats another tactic, dont rush towards those clusteres areas but fight them in the open and retreat to cities or trenches when needed.
You can do it to take the outer cities, but when you get deep inside the clusters with artillery, it's almost impossible. And not every nation has B2 bombers or hundreds of tanks and infantry. When you are playing a small nation, you just can't defeat garrisoned cities with artillery. Your units get torn to shreds from 2 hexes away from artillery hiding behind garrisons. I would say it's fine if it was a metropolis you are attacking. But a small village? that's not really realistic and really boring, and they keep regenerating health fast. It's like they have some god out there bringing those 2000 spartan villagers back from the dead.

I think the only way is to get the latest tech as you said, buying B2 bombers or spamming infantries. But the problem again is that the game isn't the fastest. Hoi4 runs at least 15x faster than this game. When each tech takes 5 years (and you can't buy a lot of them!!) and a unit takes 2 months to make it's just obnoxiously slow. I'm also sure the garrison spam makes the game even slower since each of them is a unit.

You can't even bomb those garrisons without sacrificing a land unit near them since they just go *invisible* somehow. It's not pleasant when you have 10 of these units in each city which you can't even bomb without sacrificing a unit.
I mean, each hex has around 50k-300k in the regions I play. There's at least 100 villages with 2000 people in those empty hexes, why don't they have such godly units in them too?
Rosalis
Colonel
Posts: 417
Joined: Sep 07 2019
Human: Yes

Re: Cites with garrisons and artillery are very strong!

Post by Rosalis »

Thats another good point, now all loyal cities got lots of garrisons, small cities used to be 2 even in loyal territory. Plus they wouldnt respawn full health instantly or dissapear as fast.

Also spotting for garrisons indeed makes the game slower, so you could remove spotting for them like i did and maybe give facilities spotting.

I dont like HOI 4 examples, 1 click to own it all is boring to me. Rly in my recent game i made China and Russia huge with lots of communist countries like Japan and US, after 10 years i played Netherlands and beat back Russia with worse troops (250 vs 10k units of Russia alone + lots of allies), so i dont agree with you its impossible. Hard yes, but conquering the whole world is hard. Lots of techs like the B2 spirit are extremely easy to get if you know the path. Just plan ahead, but even early strategic bombers of Russia and US can help you. Sometimes your surprised like 1 strategic bomber of Russia i was using in cw was almost like the aardvark G also something you can get very early. Just like special forces, if your playing western country.

Just curious what scenario are you talking about? Not every nation can build B2 bombers, but every player nation can buy unit designs. Im just curious why devs made these changes. Maybe to make regions stronger so they dont get annexed in 2 days. With techs and improvements of terrain battle, this should be able to be brought back tho. In SR2020 this wasnt rly a problem. Devs made this game so easy, you could also easily chuck unlimited ammount of troops in 1 hex as long they are fighting and entrenched, where in SR2020 max was 10 troops in 1 hex. Thats also most of the topics left for this game, new players (from a certain game) still facing problems. Its just up to 1 studio to change the market and defeat the competition, look at city skylines. BG alreaady claimed not to have ambitions competing tho, so i guess its mission succesfull, attracted more people that can play the game. I wouldnt be surprised if HOI move more towards modern times tho.

I think there are many players who like to be able to mod things like this tho. Defense of cities and military complexes, ammount of garrisons, max number of units per hex. These are really big gameplay changes. Make it a chess game, or open for eveyone to play as they like. Maybe there is a way to mod these tho, i just didnt figure it out yet.
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guaro15
Corporal
Posts: 5
Joined: Aug 08 2020
Human: Yes

Re: Cites with garrisons and artillery are very strong!

Post by guaro15 »

Zome wrote: Mar 27 2021 I've been playing SRU for about 2 years, though I would like to address a few things that make the game a bit boring for me.

Garrisons are fine by themselves when they are in facilities outside of cities, but the defensive terrain and close combat buffs inside cities are too strong. Almost all of my wars end up in a stalemate due to garrison spam on both sides. I can't really think it's realistic when garrisons inside cities are stronger than when they are inside forts. It's very frustrating that a "small village" of 2000 people hold out against my army of 13000 and manage to kill tanks, infantry and artillery 16km away with ease. It's also not realistic that small villages and cities have the same defensive buffs. I mean, how can a small village have the same defensive buffs as a metropolis with 10 million people?

Despite all this, an even bigger problem is big city clusters with full garrisons that protect artillery. Taking something like Tokyo is almost impossible when your opponent has hundreds of garrisons with 3/4 green bars of stats and artillery hiding behind it that doesn't have a damage limit in a single hex. I hope the devs look into it or at least give some advice on how to counter this spam. :D
Well, when you're about to attack you have to analyse very well many things first; first and the most important is the efficiency and moral of your units if it's low compared to of your enemy then it doesn't matter if you attack with the most modern equipment, you will suffer many causalities and lose entire bataillons. Be sure the moral and efficiency of your units is as high as possible before attack.

Second is the close attack and ground defence values of your units, you may think send bataillons of tanks to a village is a very easy way of seize it, but think it once again because as in real life, send tanks as the main attack or defence force for an urban area is a total disaster because of tanks have a very low performance due to the small space of actions of these areas, they can't attack or defend very well, and this is represented in the game with the close combat and defence values, these attributes are very low in tanks units as is understood the very reduced space will make things hard for them. When you are going to attack an urban area the main attack force should be conformed by mechanised infantry units because their close combat values are higher than tanks, tanks could be a good complement for infantry defence as their ground defence value is very high, they could reduce the damage made to your infantry while they are attacking, I usually attack a village or town with around of 12-10 bataillons (more or less 6k soldiers) where 2 out of 6 units in the formation are tanks and i have few causalities, even don't lose any bataillon totally, just make sure of send infantry units with high close combat attributes for urban areas, and complement their attack, beside tanks, with artillery fire located away of the main combat (and make sure you have supply units close too).

The same advice if you want to defend an urban area, don't send tanks as main defence force as their close defence attributes are very low. Send mechanised infantry, and use tanks and anti tanks as complement as their ground attack is very high and they can inflict serious damage to tanks and mechanised infantry in open areas.

Other advice is, when you are going to invade a big metropolis like Los Angeles or Tokyo, they have surrounding towns or small villages very close of them and villages surrounding that villages too, so what I do is attack the external settlements and make a perimeter that allow me attack the next with two or more bataillon groups, but if I see some bataillons are likely to get close of other settlement along side the main I want to attack, I set the option ''stealth approach'' in the roe panel of that units, this allow me to get close of the urban settlement I want to attack with the two groups avoiding that the settlement that might be along side deploy its garrisons where the groups set in ''stealth approach'' is at, while the other group set in ''capture land'' trigger the garrisons of the urban settlement I want to attack.
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