Research Facilities and others when damaged

[mrgenie]

I know there's no support for the old version, since all efforts go to the space game (as long as we can still play normal earthly battles with that game I'm all for it)

But I'm going to assume this bug also happens in the new game and thus has to be fixed:

AI is building research facilities.
None of them is finished, so he can't research.
When I conquer him, his unfinished research facilities allow me to extend my research, although they're not finished..

Which is wrong, a bug if you ask me, because unfinished he can't use them for research, but I can after conquering him although I didn't finish them either.

Solution:
It's maybe generally advisable that damaged facilities, also military facilities, become non-functional and units have to leave, so not just research becomes
non-functional but also military..

reasoning to not only limit the "non-functioning" to research but all military:

I mean if you already lost the battle in that area that the enemy comes so close, you're wasting military assets anyway to defend what you can't hold.

This quite often leads that the AI sends in 50, 100 or even 200 or more units into some barracks that are damaged by my artillery, I'm getting close..
When I get closer, I put my 30-40 military units around the barracks and wait now for the AI to move out all his damaged units and I slaughter them all.

It's better thus to make damaged military facilities already as "non-functioning" so his units already leave before the enemy comes closer..

this way he can fashionable retreat further from the front line, give units more time to heal/repair/recover and form a new line of defense, focusing his forces
on a smaller area to defend. This is quite common tactic in real world battles.

But in the game this doesn't work, because units get stuck in "damaged" facilities..

So better mark anything damaged as "non-functional" also for the conqueror.. non-functional anything that's damaged.

Just some thoughts here..

[Edit by moderator: Title updated based on discussion]

[Balthagor]

...When I conquer him, his unfinished research facilities allow me to extend my research, although they're not finished..

Which is wrong, a bug if you ask me...

Can anyone confirm this? There has been no report of this before. I feel like it would have come up by now...

[mrgenie]

...When I conquer him, his unfinished research facilities allow me to extend my research, although they're not finished..

Which is wrong, a bug if you ask me...

Can anyone confirm this? There has been no report of this before. I feel like it would have come up by now...

I can confirm I made a wrong bug. It's alright. I missed a few research facilities he build in the middle of nowhere on the Island of Borneo and the AI completed them..

Never expect anyone to build actually research facilities in the jungle ..

sorry, so this actually is no bug.. my bug report is bugged..

Close or delete it if you can..

[mrgenie]

I stand however to the point units shouldn't go to damaged military facilities for repairs.. it's easy to assume they're under attack, meaning can't hold the line..

They should all move back for repairs further away from the front line.. sometimes I just kill 50% of an enemy army by corner a barrack where I know he put all his damaged units to..

easy to wipe him off the face of the earth, although he still has large lands and had he retreated the units for repairs further, due to supplies it's not like I can march 500km into enemy
territory.. it takes time for supplies to catch up..this is common tactic but the units in the game don't use this tactic.. it gives a defender time to repair, regroup and form a new defensive line

[Balthagor]

I stand however to the point units shouldn't go to damaged military facilities for repairs...

Considering this from a coders perspective, I'd say it's not about changing their current behaviour, it's about adding a new behaviour.

The AI will always look for the closest base for either repair or reserve orders. I still support that design. However, we could separately have the AI consider the condition of a base. If damaged, it could try and rotate units in reserve that need repair to a fully functioning barracks.

Sometimes I pause repairs on a frontline barracks that is > 85% health because I don't want to was the IG/MG to repair it. I can leave something like that for years...

[mrgenie]

I stand however to the point units shouldn't go to damaged military facilities for repairs...

Considering this from a coders perspective, I'd say it's not about changing their current behaviour, it's about adding a new behaviour.

The AI will always look for the closest base for either repair or reserve orders. I still support that design. However, we could separately have the AI consider the condition of a base. If damaged, it could try and rotate units in reserve that need repair to a fully functioning barracks.

Sometimes I pause repairs on a frontline barracks that is > 85% health because I don't want to was the IG/MG to repair it. I can leave something like that for years...

For a human that argument of yours makes sense. Since as human you easily can see if there's a threat to losing units or not.

but for the AI I still think that logic isn't wise because coding that isn't possibly or only by wasting lots of CPU power, to program an AI to foresee the collapse of the front line is difficult
or extensive math for the AI.
Though damaged military installations is a good indicator something is going wrong there..

and the "auto-repair" by the minister for an AI can be set not to be triggered within 14 days after the last damage was inflicted.. so you spare complex calculations using simple verification triggers.

Military installations can be auto-repaired by a simple trigger, you basically need to count..
bDamaged = boolean to be set true/false wherever the function is that damages the facility.
iRepair++;
if (bDamaged && iRepair >=13)
{
doRepair(bDamaged);
}

that's clean coding with almost no impact on game performance.

[evildari]

..The AI will always look for the closest base for either repair or reserve orders. I still support that design...

but i guess there is a range limit for that closest base check
issue: mass scrapping units (maybe same with repair&reserve orders) - some are not moving towards barracks (although being able i.e. fuel&supply) usually those where barracks are far away

[mrgenie]

..The AI will always look for the closest base for either repair or reserve orders. I still support that design...

but i guess there is a range limit for that closest base check
issue: mass scrapping units (maybe same with repair&reserve orders) - some are not moving towards barracks (although being able i.e. fuel&supply) usually those where barracks are far away

Yes I noticed this too..

But I noticed also quite often even with amphibious landings, I mean that's really far from barracks they do actually load up again and go to the barracks..

so not sure why sometimes units don't and why sometimes they do.. AI path-finding is THE problem of all games..

I think SR has one of the best solutions I ever encountered.. but THE flawless I also still have to witness hehe

[Balthagor]

but i guess there is a range limit for that closest base check

That's true, and likely changed since release. The addition of the theater transfer system might be at play here. Since I don't do any of the coding, I'm speculating at this point.

[mrgenie]

The addition of the theater transfer system might be at play here.

which was a great addition!! But as always, improving something at one point, changes behavior somewhere else.. complex game