Long-term Inflation Control for a stable sustainable economy

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mrgenie
Brigadier Gen.
Posts: 923
Joined: Jul 08 2008

Re: Long-term Inflation Control for a stable sustainable economy

Post by mrgenie »

Here are the current parameters to get a stabilized economy again while folks loving me
2percent Inflation average - max burst 15percent - 18 years2.jpg
My taxes are 20% 30% 30% 30% 20% 4% 3% 4%
2percent Inflation average - max burst 15percent - 18 years3.jpg
Social spending is roughly recommended at all settings while Infrastructure/Family planning/Law enforcement a bit more (just 10% above)
2percent Inflation average - max burst 15percent - 18 years4.jpg
Thus far I'm trying thus to keep Inflation around 2%.. sometimes more sometimes less... and short bursts of building facilities never exceeding
15% for only short periods of time and then allow the game to cool down economy..

The game started in 1912 and now 1930.. with everything running smooth thus far.
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Rosalis
Colonel
Posts: 417
Joined: Sep 07 2019
Human: Yes

Re: Long-term Inflation Control for a stable sustainable economy

Post by Rosalis »

viewtopic.php?f=85&t=27670&sid=95b166e4 ... d6eabb67f7

This settings i use for the ai (as much regions i feel like), then when everyone is settled down lock and adjust taxes and social policies of the regions i want to be competetive and play the game from there on. World economy is just as important as your economy. For example if you annex Malaysia next and scrap synthetic rubber, market prices might just implode because of shortage of rubber and then the ai cant effectively grow. Not that you cant play along that, just build synthetic oil, air defence sites, units, every expence will improve your gdpc as long you can read the economy, you could just depend less on exports. Sometimes even lowering sales tax can improve gdpc and lower inflation simple because there is more money going arround effectively.

Nomather what, the issue remains that population growth and demand isnt balanced correctly. You might have noticed this in your 100 year peace game. Also wondering how much ai build in that 100 years peace game besides research centers, since in 2020 its just that.

The way i play for first few years is setup your priorites, try to keep China and Russia as peacefull as possible and incase of US 2020 lock techs and just research some when i play them. This way things can be more competetive. For example military rating might just give you a boost in economy. Why limit this to 1 region.
When you actually play as China sometimes its just better to colonise US instead of annexing cause else your profits on exports will be much lower.

I mean just in your example, how much did the gdp/c actually grow last 10 years? Things might look smooth, but your still below average gdp/c as Australia. Most AI just inflate the economy with max taxes = less world demand. Inflation is just an indicator.
mrgenie
Brigadier Gen.
Posts: 923
Joined: Jul 08 2008

Re: Long-term Inflation Control for a stable sustainable economy

Post by mrgenie »

Rosalis wrote: Nov 26 2020 viewtopic.php?f=85&t=27670&sid=95b166e4 ... d6eabb67f7

This settings i use for the ai (as much regions i feel like), then when everyone is settled down lock and adjust taxes and social policies of the regions i want to be competetive and play the game from there on. World economy is just as important as your economy. For example if you annex Malaysia next and scrap synthetic rubber, market prices might just implode because of shortage of rubber and then the ai cant effectively grow. Not that you cant play along that, just build synthetic oil, air defence sites, units, every expence will improve your gdpc as long you can read the economy, you could just depend less on exports. Sometimes even lowering sales tax can improve gdpc and lower inflation simple because there is more money going arround effectively.

Nomather what, the issue remains that population growth and demand isnt balanced correctly. You might have noticed this in your 100 year peace game. Also wondering how much ai build in that 100 years peace game besides research centers, since in 2020 its just that.

The way i play for first few years is setup your priorites, try to keep China and Russia as peacefull as possible and incase of US 2020 lock techs and just research some when i play them. This way things can be more competetive. For example military rating might just give you a boost in economy. Why limit this to 1 region.
When you actually play as China sometimes its just better to colonise US instead of annexing cause else your profits on exports will be much lower.

I mean just in your example, how much did the gdp/c actually grow last 10 years? Things might look smooth, but your still below average gdp/c as Australia. Most AI just inflate the economy with max taxes = less world demand. Inflation is just an indicator.
Yes that's true, with inflation around 2% some countries really advance.. especially the USA goes up like a rocket..

But for the sake of argument, I'm testing different scenarios here..

after this went smooth (or not, but hopefully it does) for at least 50 years the next test
is a 4% inflation aim.. and see what's different..
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SGTscuba
General
Posts: 2544
Joined: Dec 08 2007
Location: Tipton, UK

Re: Long-term Inflation Control for a stable sustainable economy

Post by SGTscuba »

I'm in late 1941 now as the USA, I've had inflation running between 4-5%, i've annexed the Philippines and am now on the verge of war with Japan. The economy is still really good and I even have $186bn in the bank.
My SR:U Model Project, get the latest and post suggestions here:

http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=28040
Rosalis
Colonel
Posts: 417
Joined: Sep 07 2019
Human: Yes

Re: Long-term Inflation Control for a stable sustainable economy

Post by Rosalis »

Funny fact btw, China AI took over Malaysia in my game and scrapped 90% of rubber facilities there. So yeah i already experienced regions doing better with meeting their rubber demand with synthetic rubber. AI apparently consider same thing and takes it even a step further leaving all synthetic rubber intact which can produce 150% of demand.

Where i see everyone claiming coal power and rubber plantations are the best, i would advise you to try out the more expensive facilities and see how the gdpc develops if you are stagnant. If AI can build and maintain 70 research centers without problems maybe that can tell you something.

Oil bio fuel economy as South Africa in 2020 with overproduction of agriculture on the map, almost felt as rich as US. Investments would say its not worth it, you will never play that long. What people dont consider tho is effects on gdpc. Im just starting experimenting with those buildings, but had some good results. Im only happy if China actually reaches 20k gdpc one day. Im cloose with 30% of world suporting Chinese goverment back and forth :) But other then that... thats a real challenge/test.
mrgenie
Brigadier Gen.
Posts: 923
Joined: Jul 08 2008

Re: Long-term Inflation Control for a stable sustainable economy

Post by mrgenie »

Rosalis I can confirm more expensive production doesn't necessarily mean that's bad, although I don't know why!

For power I always build water power supply.. for that reason my power productions cost are then always higher, but that actually for some reason works better for me than the coal plants..

dunno why... some things in the game are opposite of my "gut feeling" hahahah

Like raising taxes, I expect product prices to go up then, thus inflation going up.

But in the game, that's quite opposite, increase tax, burden for GDP, inflation goes down..

economy in this game is a bit tricky.. but it's very interesting to find out the "golden path" to success
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evildari
Brigadier Gen.
Posts: 629
Joined: Aug 10 2017
Human: Yes

Re: Long-term Inflation Control for a stable sustainable economy

Post by evildari »

if you like to test something that the rogue ai did in an earlier version of my mod to get insane amounts of money:
1.make sure your electricity(power)production is only petroleum-based (according to devs city-powergeneration is hardcoded petrol-based.)
2. stop importing "cheap" petrol, instead produce your own extreme expensive petrol
3. this in turn drives up the costs of electricity - then the costs of synth petrol and it cycles - you may see after some time quit large petrol costs and you treasury going up high
i guess i just ruined multiplayer :lol:
my mods
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=25932 (even techs and units for everyone - AI will own you too)
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=29326 (MARSX2)
mrgenie
Brigadier Gen.
Posts: 923
Joined: Jul 08 2008

Re: Long-term Inflation Control for a stable sustainable economy

Post by mrgenie »

evildari wrote: Nov 28 2020 if you like to test something that the rogue ai did in an earlier version of my mod to get insane amounts of money:
1.make sure your electricity(power)production is only petroleum-based (according to devs city-powergeneration is hardcoded petrol-based.)
2. stop importing "cheap" petrol, instead produce your own extreme expensive petrol
3. this in turn drives up the costs of electricity - then the costs of synth petrol and it cycles - you may see after some time quit large petrol costs and you treasury going up high
i guess i just ruined multiplayer :lol:
Hahaha, yeah that seems about it. THe higher the costs the more money you make.. weird huh..

maybe because 10% tax on 10 USD petrol cost is less than 10% tax on 50 USD petrol cost? No idea how they programmed it but somehow indeed it seems higher costs = more revenue for the government..
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evildari
Brigadier Gen.
Posts: 629
Joined: Aug 10 2017
Human: Yes

Re: Long-term Inflation Control for a stable sustainable economy

Post by evildari »

mrgenie wrote: Nov 30 2020
evildari wrote: Nov 28 2020 if you like to test something that the rogue ai did in an earlier version of my mod to get insane amounts of money:
1.make sure your electricity(power)production is only petroleum-based (according to devs city-powergeneration is hardcoded petrol-based.)
2. stop importing "cheap" petrol, instead produce your own extreme expensive petrol
3. this in turn drives up the costs of electricity - then the costs of synth petrol and it cycles - you may see after some time quit large petrol costs and you treasury going up high
i guess i just ruined multiplayer :lol:
Hahaha, yeah that seems about it. THe higher the costs the more money you make.. weird huh..

maybe because 10% tax on 10 USD petrol cost is less than 10% tax on 50 USD petrol cost? No idea how they programmed it but somehow indeed it seems higher costs = more revenue for the government..
ah well that worked way faster than i thought:
viewtopic.php?p=198294#p198294
my mods
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=25932 (even techs and units for everyone - AI will own you too)
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=29326 (MARSX2)
SGTscuba
General
Posts: 2544
Joined: Dec 08 2007
Location: Tipton, UK

Re: Long-term Inflation Control for a stable sustainable economy

Post by SGTscuba »

Interestingly, I've played my save through to 1951, and have annexed Japan, China and India. The bottom has dropped out of commodity prices, and my inflation value has been sitting at -4% so i'm now wondering if its going to be recoverable long term (i'm building nuke plants so hopefully, although so far the production cost is sat at $11)

I am struggling for cash too now, so now I think I am going to struggle to pull it back.
My SR:U Model Project, get the latest and post suggestions here:

http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=28040
Rosalis
Colonel
Posts: 417
Joined: Sep 07 2019
Human: Yes

Re: Long-term Inflation Control for a stable sustainable economy

Post by Rosalis »

Nuclear power plants are good when you have low unemployment and high inflation. Now you need to build those expensive buildings where your mind says; thats way too low production.

For example wind mills. They require ALOT of maintenance. But that money flows back into the economy. You could also buy coal for power from countries you rather dont want to buy from, or produce yourself, so yeah. Thats the cheap short term alternative. You minmaxed your economy into the ground. Maybe just by annexing China and India. As evildari showed, if you connect multiple goods inside your country, thats where the real money comes from.

If you are really struggling, puppet China and India and watch your economy explode. China is perfect puppet in my USSR cw campaign. For some reason it seems those hexes and the gdp/c are locked together. This is prolly the best way to influence market prices. For example try what evildari did in China and India and then puppet them.
SGTscuba
General
Posts: 2544
Joined: Dec 08 2007
Location: Tipton, UK

Re: Long-term Inflation Control for a stable sustainable economy

Post by SGTscuba »

Rosalis wrote: Dec 06 2020 Nuclear power plants are good when you have low unemployment and high inflation. Now you need to build those expensive buildings where your mind says; thats way too low production.

For example wind mills. They require ALOT of maintenance. But that money flows back into the economy. You could also buy coal for power from countries you rather dont want to buy from, or produce yourself, so yeah. Thats the cheap short term alternative. You minmaxed your economy into the ground. Maybe just by annexing China and India. As evildari showed, if you connect multiple goods inside your country, thats where the real money comes from.

If you are really struggling, puppet China and India and watch your economy explode. China is perfect puppet in my USSR cw campaign. For some reason it seems those hexes and the gdp/c are locked together. This is prolly the best way to influence market prices. For example try what evildari did in China and India and then puppet them.
Ill make them both colonies and get back to you on what happens.
My SR:U Model Project, get the latest and post suggestions here:

http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=28040
mrgenie
Brigadier Gen.
Posts: 923
Joined: Jul 08 2008

Re: Long-term Inflation Control for a stable sustainable economy

Post by mrgenie »

SGTscuba wrote: Dec 05 2020 Interestingly, I've played my save through to 1951, and have annexed Japan, China and India. The bottom has dropped out of commodity prices, and my inflation value has been sitting at -4% so i'm now wondering if its going to be recoverable long term (i'm building nuke plants so hopefully, although so far the production cost is sat at $11)

I am struggling for cash too now, so now I think I am going to struggle to pull it back.
If you absorb other countries with lower GDP, they drag your GDP down once you absorb them..

And the Inflation in this game is an indicator to the GDP change, also GDP Deflator.

There are monetary inflation, consumer price inflation are other types of inflation, in fact many! And there's not even a worldwide consensus here..

What we tax-slaves from our fake-media hear is usually the Consumer Price Index, CPI.. that's the measurement of what we usually hear Inflation.

But there's also the Personal consumption expenditures price index PCEPI or the GDP-Deflator

Here's some links:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDP_deflator (this is what we use in the game)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Price_Index (this we don't use in the game, although common fake-media calls this Inflation)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_ ... rice_index (This we don't use either in the game and most people never heard of it)

There's also the ECI, CCI, IPD, PCE, CTPIPCE and many other indices, they're all a measurement for INFLATION |O |O |O
You know everyone has their own opinion on this topic.. economists worldwide all know it better of course..
Everyone knows it obviously much better than anyone else..

I hereby state:"economics is NOT my profession" :lol: :lol: :lol:

That's to keep me out of the wind, I'll leave it to the professionals to debate what's the best and most accurate index..

I can only comment my experience:'fake-media inflation - CPI, is a big fat lie!" At least when it concerns my basket..
And this game uses the GDP Deflator "Index"
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evildari
Brigadier Gen.
Posts: 629
Joined: Aug 10 2017
Human: Yes

Re: Long-term Inflation Control for a stable sustainable economy

Post by evildari »

if you are lucky then your countries statistical bureau lets you define your own basket of the consumer price index - to calculate your own "personal" inflation
(and whatever i try - my values are always much higher than the official numbers of the default basket)
the inflation stats in this game really seem to be rather a gdp-deflator in the sense of how the gdp(c)? changed - but there is no reference to the compared time frame - last 12 months or just 1 month or ytd... i think the original decision to remove the display of this value was a better design decision than not improving calculation precision.
economics is my background but its almost as with lawyers: you ask 10 and get 11 answers
my mods
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=25932 (even techs and units for everyone - AI will own you too)
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=29326 (MARSX2)
mrgenie
Brigadier Gen.
Posts: 923
Joined: Jul 08 2008

Re: Long-term Inflation Control for a stable sustainable economy

Post by mrgenie »

evildari wrote: Dec 07 2020 the inflation stats in this game really seem to be rather a gdp-deflator in the sense of how the gdp(c)? changed - but there is no reference to the compared time frame - last 12 months or just 1 month or ytd... i think the original decision to remove the display of this value was a better design decision than not improving calculation precision.
I'm pretty sure it's versus last year.. thus 12 months.. given the fact how long it takes to "cool down" hyperinflation..
evildari wrote: Dec 07 2020economics is my background but its almost as with lawyers: you ask 10 and get 11 answers
You ask 10 laywers and you get 0 answers and 50 bills..
1 of each for the phonecall (they even charge you for that!)
1 for the secretary writing you a letter, for that they already need 500 EUR
1 for them to read the documents, which I can say they don't even read your documents but charge you for it... and I have no problems using names here like HIDDEMA!
1 for coming to the courtroom, where they are DEFENDING THEMSELVES and not their client.. "Ja, ik kan het niet weten, ik was er niet bij..."
it's like defending himself why he's uninformed, doesn't know what's written in the documents.. later talking to him outside of the court room
I pointed out several issues specifying the exact page nr and phrase and he's like:"huh, oh, I must have missed that"

LOL, he didn't miss it, he never read it!
and a bill for consulation, 10 minutes they charge you 2 hours..

Note:'the court case wasn't for me but for a friend, but what most freaked me out is the fact the lawyer charging over 45k EUR in total for ... doing NOTHING!"

Whatever your profession is.. do NOT compare any profession with that of a lawyer.. honestly, the profession of lawyer is filling their own pockets on the sorrow of their clients.

Done ranting here..
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