Specific Historic Unit names ? AND where is the SS/Waffen SS

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nick-bang
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Specific Historic Unit names ? AND where is the SS/Waffen SS

Post by nick-bang »

This has probably been covered in another post, but i blame my laziness in not trying to ferret it out... :oops:

SO...

My question or suggestion depending on how far in the process it is are this:

I would really like for my units to have historical names instead of generic. Yes, yes, yes: I know I can change their names manually, but it would be neat if I as german could have them generated randomly. I dont like to plull the Hearts of Iron Card - but they had that covered (and they didnt cover a lot of other things instead...).

Also why cant I produce SS and Waffen-SS units as German?
Rhaycen
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Re: Specific Historic Unit names ? AND where is the SS/Waffe

Post by Rhaycen »

The SS thing is likely the same answer as to why you don't see other Nazi symbolism in the game ...

One is not allowed to use this symbolism and publish your game in Germany. (Hence why the German version of Wolfenstein is different)
And BG doesn't have the resources or the desire to make a separate version of the game just for Germany.
nick-bang
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Re: Specific Historic Unit names ? AND where is the SS/Waffe

Post by nick-bang »

Rhaycen wrote:The SS thing is likely the same answer as to why you don't see other Nazi symbolism in the game ...

One is not allowed to use this symbolism and publish your game in Germany. (Hence why the German version of Wolfenstein is different)
And BG doesn't have the resources or the desire to make a separate version of the game just for Germany.
Actually that is common misconception. Completely wrong, but very common.

What the law states in Germany is that you are not allowed to use the Swastika or any other symbols of the Third Reich in a propaganda context or as a basis of a political (read: Right-wing) movement. For some strange reason the hammer and sicle of the communists are not similarly banned.

At any rate then it is allowed in a satirical or historical context. Othervise all Documentaries would have to be heavily edited. In other words then its a rather silly interpretation and mostly a case of unessesary self-censorship.

But I digress:

The case in point is that Paradox in spite of an almost religious, rather allergic and hysterical reaction against any discussion regarding the use of swastikas In-game, actually have the correct names of german divisions including SS and Waffen-SS. So its possible.
Not to mention historically correct.

So the only real question is if there is an easy way to do it?
SoB
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Re: Specific Historic Unit names ? AND where is the SS/Waffe

Post by SoB »

Was there any diffrence between a SS infantry battlion and a army infantry battlion. Pointless making a unit that is the exact same thing only with a SS in the name.
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RanGer
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Re: Specific Historic Unit names ? AND where is the SS/Waffe

Post by RanGer »

SoB wrote:Was there any diffrence between a SS infantry battlion and a army infantry battlion. Pointless making a unit that is the exact same thing only with a SS in the name.
They weren't under the direct command of the army. They were more like Hitler's personal army. Some units also got the newest and best equipment first, before the Wehrmacht.

You can pretty much simulate both in the game already through the use of battle groups. Have the army under AI control, create a few battle groups with the newest tanks, arty, etc... which would be under your direct control and rename the to whatever you would like them to be.
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Re: Specific Historic Unit names ? AND where is the SS/Waffe

Post by SoB »

RanGer wrote:
SoB wrote:Was there any diffrence between a SS infantry battlion and a army infantry battlion. Pointless making a unit that is the exact same thing only with a SS in the name.
They weren't under the direct command of the army. They were more like Hitler's personal army. Some units also got the newest and best equipment first, before the Wehrmacht.

You can pretty much simulate both in the game already through the use of battle groups. Have the army under AI control, create a few battle groups with the newest tanks, arty, etc... which would be under your direct control and rename the to whatever you would like them to be.
Lol I all ready play like that.
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nick-bang
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Re: Specific Historic Unit names ? AND where is the SS/Waffe

Post by nick-bang »

SoB wrote:Was there any diffrence between a SS infantry battlion and a army infantry battlion. Pointless making a unit that is the exact same thing only with a SS in the name.
The first thing to do is to seperate SS and Waffen-SS.

SS grew from the private security details of the early days of the NSDAP. The GrossDeutchland Division was the most elite Division in the entire Wehrmacht and grew from the Wachtbattalion Berlin. Or the personal Guards of the leadership of the third reich. They were selected for both their physical prowess as well as their mental fortitude. And of course their unwavering loyalty to Hitler himself regardless of their orders.

Waffen-SS was the De Facto german foreign legion. And for many of the same reasons that made the French Foreign legion a truly formidable fighting force (when not being led by incompetent french officers), It too was a truly formidable, flexible and tough group of Divisions and brigades. But being of mixed composition, and especially in the later days of WW2, that also meant that there was quite a big difference between the best and the worst.

In those two organizations were some of the most tough and combat proven divisions of the germans through WW2.

SO...
What Im actually looking for is just a hint of historical flavour. I know full well that you can replicate the effects by raising Guard or Brandenburger battalions, but that just isnt the same.
bvb
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Re: Specific Historic Unit names ? AND where is the SS/Waffe

Post by bvb »

Battalion organization did differ with some types of SS battalions, particularly with mobile forces, at least on paper, typically having "extra" support assets. At the battalion level, things like a few self propelled AA or assault guns, (Reality, particularly in the late war of course was that paper and actual strength seldom held much in common). In game terms, not huge differences.

Differences were much more apparent at the Regimental and divisional level, where they were allotted additional battalions, eg their panzergrenadier regiments in the panzer division each had 3 battalions instead of 2, 1 of each regiment was "armored" (at least on paper) instead of only the first battalion of the first regiment in the Heer division, etc.
SoB
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Re: Specific Historic Unit names ? AND where is the SS/Waffe

Post by SoB »

nick-bang wrote:
SoB wrote:Was there any diffrence between a SS infantry battlion and a army infantry battlion. Pointless making a unit that is the exact same thing only with a SS in the name.
The first thing to do is to seperate SS and Waffen-SS.

SS grew from the private security details of the early days of the NSDAP. The GrossDeutchland Division was the most elite Division in the entire Wehrmacht and grew from the Wachtbattalion Berlin. Or the personal Guards of the leadership of the third reich. They were selected for both their physical prowess as well as their mental fortitude. And of course their unwavering loyalty to Hitler himself regardless of their orders.

Waffen-SS was the De Facto german foreign legion. And for many of the same reasons that made the French Foreign legion a truly formidable fighting force (when not being led by incompetent french officers), It too was a truly formidable, flexible and tough group of Divisions and brigades. But being of mixed composition, and especially in the later days of WW2, that also meant that there was quite a big difference between the best and the worst.

In those two organizations were some of the most tough and combat proven divisions of the germans through WW2.

SO...
What Im actually looking for is just a hint of historical flavour. I know full well that you can replicate the effects by raising Guard or Brandenburger battalions, but that just isnt the same.

A lot of work to duplicat every german unit to give a moral boost. In terms of gear (rifel, tanks and numbers) they the same has any german battlion. Best make a battel group and call it SS -
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SoB
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Re: Specific Historic Unit names ? AND where is the SS/Waffe

Post by SoB »

bvb wrote:Battalion organization did differ with some types of SS battalions, particularly with mobile forces, at least on paper, typically having "extra" support assets. At the battalion level, things like a few self propelled AA or assault guns, (Reality, particularly in the late war of course was that paper and actual strength seldom held much in common). In game terms, not huge differences.

Differences were much more apparent at the Regimental and divisional level, where they were allotted additional battalions, eg their panzergrenadier regiments in the panzer division each had 3 battalions instead of 2, 1 of each regiment was "armored" (at least on paper) instead of only the first battalion of the first regiment in the Heer division, etc.

So very small difrences. That means if we start it with the SS where will it end. Every country and branch is a bit difrent after all.
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bvb
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Re: Specific Historic Unit names ? AND where is the SS/Waffe

Post by bvb »

I'm not disagreeing with not having them. ;) Given the nature of equipment/units in this game, it would be very cumbersome, requiring umpteen duplicates of, for example, every tank to have 1 w/ 4 tank platoons, another with 5. In all reality, since the core equipment is the same (a Pz IV is a Pz IV), we do have a way of essentially doing this: Split & merge to create an oversized unit.
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