Any noob guides?

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Farflame
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Any noob guides?

Post by Farflame »

Hi. I'm a total SR noob, having come from HOI3, which I really enjoy. At first, I was a little bit put off by the 'RTS' feel of SR, but I'm starting to think it's just making the transition and re-learning a complex game that's bugging me. What I REALLY like about SR over HOI is the control you have over your economy, which was almost totally missing from HOI and which really makes a wargame imo. However, I pretty much have no idea what I'm doing and can't find any guides to help me learn, so it's all trial and error right now. So are there any noob guides I can read on the basics of the economy, or could someone help me with some basics, such as ...

1) How does production work and what makes up the 'Goods Cost' of a unit? If I build an infantry unit for example and it costs 38t of goods, is that just military goods and is it taken instantly from my stockpile or split over the course of the building time? Similarly for a facility, if it costs $1,000,000 and 1,000 of each resource over 100 days, is that all taken on day 1 or would it be $10,000 / 10 / 10 per day for 100 days?

2) What are the various goods made from? Am I right in thinking that 1 unit of military goods for example, is made up of x units of rubber, x units of pertroleum, x units of metal etc? What are the numbers?

3) Since I'm trying to play the German campaign and already seem to have 'broken' my economy before the war even starts :lol: , any basic pointers? I'll play through the war to get the hang of it, but presumably be defeated quite quickly (it's only a trial game :P ) but then restart, hopefully with a bit of a clue. Looks like I'm going into this war with biplanes! How do I fix the oil and rubber problems as Germany? I tried synthetics but knew it would lead to disaster. Is there a better approach?

Apologies if I'm going over old ground but I can't find any good guides anywhere yet.
Hundane
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Re: Any noob guides?

Post by Hundane »

A guide is currently being worked on.

http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 70&t=22416
Farflame
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Re: Any noob guides?

Post by Farflame »

Cool, looks good :)

I'm learning quite a lot by looking through the various screens, especially the 'consumption' tabs which does seem to detail where everything comes from and goes to (although I think it's showing the consumption from the previous day, so it never totally adds up, but it's correct from the previous day at least). So I think I'm understanding it slightly. Looks like my current economy is totally screwed, I have loads of money but am strangled for pretroleum which strangles my industrials good which... etc etc. But I like it and it's obvious that this was caused by my overbuilding at the start, which I was doing to try to build my way out of the poor situation (Germany starts off struggling which I like because it's historically accurate and presents a challenge). I'm going to go ahead with the war to get some practice at that, then restart, maybe as a smaller country to really get to grips with the economy :)

Only thing I definitely don't understand now is how supply affects production (or if it does) and if I should work on roads/rail to economic centres etc (I hope this is true as it will add another dimension, my hope is that this is so complex that you can never 'solve' the issue entirely and have to keep tweaking and fixing problems, because that's what makes these games good for me).
Hundane
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Re: Any noob guides?

Post by Hundane »

how supply affects production (or if it does) and if I should work on roads/rail to economic centres etc
It does. Look for high supply % hexes to build facilities. To increase supply % build things like supply depots, airbases, airfields, piers, ports etc. All those will increase supply. Supply can pushed out to surrounding hexes by using roads and rails. Rails are cheaper, Roads increase unit movement speed.

Keep your people happy, that helps too. Happy people produce more.
Rhaycen
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Re: Any noob guides?

Post by Rhaycen »

As a fellow n00b in this series (well a few weeks ago), I totally understand what you are going through.

Starting with the German Campaign is a fairly good idea, as it is the most finished at this point and Germany is a good sized country with a already mostly functioning economy. I made the mistake of starting with the Netherlands, and besides being a tiny country is is also severely lacking in certain areas of the economy. (though robbing Indonesia blind fixes this somewhat)

I would suggest trying various games with various size nations in sandbox, USA, Germany, the Netherlands to learn the various balances of the economies.

In the end you will want to have enough Industrial Good production that you can keep building stuff, and enough Military production that you produce more Military Goods then you use. Do not sell the surplus of Military goods if you want/expect to go to war, not only are Military Goods the tanks and battleships you produce but also the bullets they consume during warfare, a lack of these goods can really grind down a war.

Rubber & Petroleum are important too, but generally both are available enough that you can just stockpile it ahead of time if you don't have enough production of either of them. In general, a lot of trial and error will be needed to find what matches your style of play.
Von Bismarck
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Re: Any noob guides?

Post by Von Bismarck »

It does. Look for high supply % hexes to build facilities. To increase supply % build things like supply depots, airbases, airfields, piers, ports etc. All those will increase supply. Supply can pushed out to surrounding hexes by using roads and rails. Rails are cheaper, Roads increase unit movement speed.
I am pretty sure I read that you increase supply with airbases, Depots, and ports, but piers and airfields do not affect supply. It may have been from a post from another SR game though, I have not tested it.
Only thing I definitely don't understand now is how supply affects production (or if it does) and if I should work on roads/rail to economic centers etc (I hope this is true as it will add another dimension, my hope is that this is so complex that you can never 'solve' the issue entirely and have to keep tweaking and fixing problems, because that's what makes these games good for me).
Yes, the economic/supply issue is, at least for me, the most difficult to solve. As it was said above, supply affects the productivity of the hex proportionate to it's supply levels. I try to build up supply around industrial centers like large populated areas to 100%, and then build outward from them all the while trying to keep supply for those outlying hexes above 90% or at least 80% for hexes that are more isolated. Where I would enjoy some information is the cost benefit ratio for placing another supply center versus the maintenance costs of such facilities. At the moment, I am just guessing for the most part. Roads help supply like arteries to a body and provide movement bonuses to your land units, but are more expensive to maintain than rail, and there is no way to build enough road and rail to reach every hex that you need supplied. I rely on the supply percentage of the hex information tab and try to keep my builds in areas that are reasonably high.

I struggle with my economy and it's growth as Germany, it seems as though you are punished for increasing GDP. Germany is virtually incapable of supplying itself with oil without taking countries like Iran, Iraq, Romania, and Egypt. So plan on making some early conquests if you have long term goals associated with high Industrial/Consumer/Military Goods production. This however may draw you into world conflict earlier than anticipated and does not make many friends in the World Market.

The ability to produce synthetic rubber will help your consumption, but oil from coal doesn't come close to self sufficiency for me.

While I play, I try to refrain from making too many ahistoric changes but the oil issue is difficult for Germany to overcome. It never fails that while I am building oil rigs that my population and their needs for CG's, Electric, Coal, Food, etc., etc. are on the increase, so I build more of those, and then my oil productions slips again. It is a never ending cycle for me. Currently I am in 1956 and trying to avoid bankruptcy while waiting for research on leopard panzers to complete, dealing with the cycle and the rising expenses of empire having to lower my subsidies which will eventually lead to an unhappy populace and uncontrollable insurgency. I am hoping that my much prolonged invasion of Russia will solve the existing economic problems. Cross your fingers.
Farflame
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Re: Any noob guides?

Post by Farflame »

Thanks for the tips. It's still a struggle but I'm slowly learning, and since I enjoy this part of the game the most, it's fun to learn. As Germany, the big problem really does seem to be oil, which is historically true, so that's good (compare to HOI3 for example where it simply didn't matter). Being forced to wage war for oil gains is realistic and accurate, instead of just waging war because the game tells you to (though I assume that happens too, I haven't got that far yet :lol: )

Overall I'm enjoying it, though I've made such a huge mess of my economy, it's going to be fun seeing how I fare, even against the Poles :P
pcoud
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Re: Any noob guides?

Post by pcoud »

I have hundreds (probably thousands) hours of play in the supreme ruler series and I have still not understood everything (by far), especially the mechanics behind the economics aspect of the game. The following are my own tips, mostly based on my experience and on my playstyle. It is not at all meant to be a recipe, just hopefully a little help in your discovery of this game.
1) Since your are new to the game, do you know there's a wiki (http://www.supremewiki.com)? It may help you, I'm sure you'll learn interesting things.
2) The biggest "danger" for your economy is to overbuild. It is so easy (and tempting!) to click here and there and order the construction of buildings, factories, units, ships, aircraft etc. Overbuilding can quickly drive you into a vicious circle. When you notice it, it's too late and difficult to recover. If you build a lot of buildings and units, you'll need a lot of industrial goods, a lot of military goods (and quite some money too). Both IG and MG require electricity and petroleum (among other things), so the demand for IG, MG, electricity and petroleum may explode. In addition, when you are building, you are giving work to your people, they become richer. They can buy more, they will actually demand more consumer goods, petroleum, electricity etc. So CG, petroleum, electricity demand rises too, due to civilian demand. And CGs require IGs (and petroleum, and electricity, etc). See the bad spiral? In other words: take your time, don't go too fast. With experience you'll know when you have to cool down :-)
3) It can also be very tempting to monitor the GDP of your country and believing that the higher the better. That can be totally wrong. Once again it's a matter of speed: if your GDP is growing too quickly, it can just mean you are in the bad spiral I just mentioned. To answer one of your questions Farflame, and even though I think nobody knows the "formula", the cost of goods produced dépends on the salaries in your factories. The higher your GDP, the richer your citizens, the lower your unemployment rate ---> the higher the salaries in the factories ---> the higher the cost of goods produced.
4) The indicator I used to monitor the most is the unemployment rate. If you have 10% then you have room to put people at work and grow your economy. If you reach 2-3% then you have to cool down. Inflation too is a good indicator: if you overbuild, people have more money, and prices rise. That's also a sign of overheat.
5) You don't necessarily want to be self sufficient on everything (this is a "mistake" I made for very long). Use trade! As mentioned several times in this thread, Germany can't be self sufficient in oil: find the oil producers that are willing to trade with you, buy and stock ! I have made a German campaign up to mid 1944 and have conquered France, Denmark, Norway, England, and a good part of USSR (Moscow is mine), and haven't experienced oil shortages yet.
6) You don't necessarily want to produce everything. I find sometimes myself building factories or mines to produce goods whose cost of production (by my country) is higher than the market price (...). Just import these goods and free your manpower for more profitable goods production. Or at least limit these goods production to 100% of demand and not 100% of capacity.
7) You can somehow impact some goods consumption by playing with domestic prices. If your economy is overheating, don't hesitate to rise domestic prices. Consumer goods for example are very costly ressources-wise. Rising their price will lower their consumption, and therefore lower the electricity, oil, IGs, ore and rubber consumption.
8) Supply: on top of what has been already said, please note that there is 1 important additional way to improve your supply all over your country: by improving your infrastructure. You can improve infrastructure in 2 different ways: some techs research give bonuses to your infrastructure, and/or you can invest (actually you should) in infrastructure in the social spendings (expensive but efficient). Be also aware that another paramater dramatically impacts production efficiency: loyalty. That means that production in countries you have annexed will be I think only one third of what that would have been with a loyal population (in your own country). I very often end up scrapping factories in conquered territory to build new ones in my mother country. There is no way, to my knowledge, you can impact loyalty.
Farflame
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Re: Any noob guides?

Post by Farflame »

Thanks, useful stuff. Actually a good explanation of what they're talking about when they say that China's economy is overheating (in real life, not in 1936, lol).
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