What's up with the Suez Canal?

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forumname
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What's up with the Suez Canal?

Post by forumname »

I know it was nationalized in the 50's..but they still allow anyone through it..

It's really no big deal to conquer Egypt every game in order to have access, but diplomatically speaking there should be no need for this.
Aragos
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Re: What's up with the Suez Canal?

Post by Aragos »

my bet is they have a treaty setup at start allowing passage to some countries (transit treaties). I know Turkey does and that allows ships to pass through the straits.
forumname
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Re: What's up with the Suez Canal?

Post by forumname »

I suppose the question should have been, "Why is a treaty required"...when in the real world it simply isn't.
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Re: What's up with the Suez Canal?

Post by Tremere »

it's not free.
In 2010 Egypt budget gains 4,5 milliards USD from ships, without tourists attraction
In 2011 Egypt budget gains 5,22 milliards USD from 17799 ships.
Game engine is not so flexible to gain money for every ship.

But Egypt government can close channel for some countries.
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Re: What's up with the Suez Canal?

Post by Aragos »

Well, this is a game, not the real world. There isnt a mechanism, other than transit treaties, to reflect the canals.

I suppose you could create a special canal zone (like the designers did for panama) or you could leave it open. I dont think either one of those necessarily works better (one gives you an addtional 'country' so you end up with the same situation as Egypt; the other gives you unclaimed territory, which isnt exactly right either).

Short of making a 'global transit' location, there isnt much else you can do under the limitiations of the treaty engine.
forumname
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Re: What's up with the Suez Canal?

Post by forumname »

I never suggested it was "free"...but

"Under international treaty, it may be used "in time of war as in time of peace, by every vessel of commerce or of war, without distinction of flag"



I'll just keep conquering Egypt and Panama in every game.....

Why come up with a way to "pay for transit" when one can just slaughter a few hundred thousand people, and take it.
gavco98uk
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Re: What's up with the Suez Canal?

Post by gavco98uk »

Egypt starts off with a transit treaty with every nation to allow them to pass through the Suez Canal. However, there is a scripted event to overthrow the government, after which diplomatic ties are severed with most, if not all nations, after which the canal is closed.

Suez should have been implemented in the same manner as the panama canal, or at least change the scripting to not sever sea transit treaties after the revolution.
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Re: What's up with the Suez Canal?

Post by Tremere »

Aragos wrote:Well, this is a game, not the real world. There isnt a mechanism, other than transit treaties, to reflect the canals.

I suppose you could create a special canal zone (like the designers did for panama) or you could leave it open. I dont think either one of those necessarily works better (one gives you an addtional 'country' so you end up with the same situation as Egypt; the other gives you unclaimed territory, which isnt exactly right either).

Short of making a 'global transit' location, there isnt much else you can do under the limitiations of the treaty engine.
If it'll be "'global transit' location" how to forbid crossing the canal by enemy (not in war) countries.
If some countries really need in sea transit, new treaty is not a problem.
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number47
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Re: What's up with the Suez Canal?

Post by number47 »

Make the canals (all) a UN territory with full transit treaty with all countries and you solved the problem with Egypt-Israel war and disruption of the canal...not historical, not correct but will correct the current issue...
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Balthagor
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Re: What's up with the Suez Canal?

Post by Balthagor »

except there is a city there. And if we change it from a city to a bridge, it can get damaged and never repaired like the one at Malmo in SR2020.
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Re: What's up with the Suez Canal?

Post by Aragos »

Balt--
Maybe the solution would be a big diplomacy/UN minus for annexing the Canal zones. Maybe a big rise in casus belli as well. Makes sense to me, at least--you close Suez, and the world would get very, very upset.
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Re: What's up with the Suez Canal?

Post by forumname »

Last night I declared war on both the fractured canal zone, and Egypt. (in my game the Israeli's got stomped by Egypt)

As stated the land captured by Israel, then recaptured by Egypt (the north part of the Suez,north of Al Isma'iliyam and one thread at the road crossing at As Suways) belonged solely to Egypt, thus 'breaking' the canal.

I liberated the canal zone, while still at war with Egypt (chasing the bouncing-capital) and it completely repaired itself, after which of course you can make every agreement possible with the zone.


I'm thinking that it must be done in this order, to keep it intact...will try it later from a saved game and capture Egypt first
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number47
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Re: What's up with the Suez Canal?

Post by number47 »

Balthagor wrote:except there is a city there. And if we change it from a city to a bridge, it can get damaged and never repaired like the one at Malmo in SR2020.
Ok, why not keep the city and make the canals part of "UN Protectorate" like in SR2020?
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Balthagor
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Re: What's up with the Suez Canal?

Post by Balthagor »

UN Protectorate in SR2020 was just a name of a region like any other. It wasn't actually treated as UN territory. That's the same as making it a colony of Egypt or owned by Egypt.
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number47
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Re: What's up with the Suez Canal?

Post by number47 »

Balthagor wrote:UN Protectorate in SR2020 was just a name of a region like any other. It wasn't actually treated as UN territory. That's the same as making it a colony of Egypt or owned by Egypt.
Yeah I know that, what I was going for is if the canals or bridges are under "UN protectorate" region, and you make that you can't declare war on that specific region it would solve the issue. Or create a "special" bridge that would have huuge amount of hit points or make it indestructible like roads or railroads.
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