Uinstalled...

[vizhon]

Okay, my interest in this game has died completely and it is uninstalled until I hear not just of patches but that a MAJOR revision has been put out to make this game the game it should be. If that never happens, then so long Battlegoat Studio... You sold two games to me but I feel so ripped off and burned by the second one that it is the last game you will ever sell me unless you actually fix it.

[StoweMobile]

what sort of "revision" are you talking about? It's incredibly annoying when I waste my time because someone posts here whining about something...especially when they don't even say what it is in the game thats bothering them.
-Criticism is fine, but please make it constructive criticism. No body cares that you uninstalled the game, and im sure the devs know the game is not for everyone, but please don't waste everyones time with a post like this. In the future why don't you try making some suggestions on fixing the things you don't like (or in the very least say what it is you don't like).

[maddog7667]

i think he means the gearing sr2020 has taken towards showing less details. no maint cost shown,(shows build cost) no maint cost shown for units or facilties. the supply level not shown,production numbers per facitity are not shown as per more or less resource the facility sits on. the welfare/unemploment insurance/pension income percent level no longer shown.immigration/emigration pretty much gone from the game.

i was hoping for more details being shown in the game is especally in the social and tax departments more sliders to adjust to make it more unique. each department(healtcare/education/tranportation) and on the tax side(low income/high income/sales tax) plus the ones i did not list, get like 3 or 4 each to adjust. that way you can set your priorties the way you want them.

well hopfully the person who started this post replies, if not then ill take it as my own. my copy of sr2020 is installed.

maddog

[vizhon]

You want to know what's wrong with it? Read any of the complaints voiced. Look for other posts of mine where I have made the complaints quite clear. This thread wasn't started in a vacuum.

[Scott_B]

This game is great fun. Perhaps if it were installed you would enjoy it more.

Seriously I just played today as Japan and it was great fun fighting north Korea took forever to break their defenses and my allies declared war also. Well US didn't but they are land locked anyway until they fix AI amphib attacks which I hope they do.

I have a few complaints but really for 40 bucks I have had a great time. I spent 35 dollars with my son to watch a crappy movie that lasted less then 2 hours. All is relative.

Even with the few annoyances there is not a game even close to this one.

[vizhon]

Supreme Ruler 2010 was close to this game and was better.

It keeps getting compared to Hearts of Iron 2 and Europa Universalis 3, both of which are better.

You may have had fun playing a country and kicking one other country's butt but that's not what this game is being sold as. It's being sold as a grand global economic/political/war game that can't do most of what are standard to those sorts of games.... You may have found 1 game fun, but talk again in a few more weeks, once you have had time to see the shortcomings and realise just how stupid the AI is.

[Balthagor]

I know I'll regret asking, but...

vizhon, what do you currently hope to achieve? You said that the game as it currently exists is not what you want it to be, and we have no problem with your opinion or with you voicing it. When I saw your original post I had thought of replying but then realized that if you'd uninstalled and it and were walking away from the game you'd likely walk away from the forum too, so posting seemed pointless. Others have challenged you to itemize your complaints and you've made it clear that you've done so in previous posts. When others reply that they are in the majority who do like the game you seem hell bent on changing their personal opinion to which they also have a right.

Even when members of our Studio reply directly to some of your concerns you see conspiracy and misdirection in most posts you disagree with. While I personally disagree with George on a number of the design issues, I do not feel he's feeding me a line when he explains his position. It's fine for you to have a professional disagreement with any studio member but if you start attacking their personal integrity you will inevitably cross the line and face a reprimand for being rude, and we're very lenient on these forums, in 8 years I think I've issued 2-3 warnings.

So the real questions becomes, what is this thread contributing to the forum? Why should it continue if you've already stated your case?

-------

FYI, I have not reviewed all of your posts, I'm under the impression that both Legend and George have addressed your previous posts.

[StoweMobile]

So the real questions becomes, what is this thread contributing to the forum? Why should it continue if you've already stated your case?

Exactly!!! Its like he didn't like the game...so he decided he would try and hert the developers feelings. He felt he wasted his money, so he is going to march down here to the forums get on his soap box, and start trolling. I hate when people do this
--vizhon, Im really sorry you don't like the game and Im really sorry you feel you've wasted you money, but alls I can say is you should have spent more time with the demo. Obviously if the game is not what you expected, then you didn't do enough research...and is there not always a risk of not liking a game when you don't know enough about it? Im sure every person on this forum has bought a game they ended up not likeing at some point, but did they go and troll on that games respective forums wasting everyone's time? Maybe, but at the end of the day if your not being constructive your being destructive...and posts like this are certainly destructive if you ask me. If you liked 2010 so much better, then go play it and wait for the vague "revision" you want to happen for 2020, and leave the people who like the game alone...PLEASE!!

[Argh...]

Sigh why aint people see the things which where done brilliantly. I bought the game and played it ever since. Ofc I would have liked to see it being worked on for a year more. Playing as USA fighting China hehehe. Must say I begin to understand why some AI limitations where placed. I regret the passive naval AI. Would have liked to see a bit more coordinated and agressive AI land attacks. But these Chinese strongholds are a good way to compensate. You know where a city is stacked with artillery

Hotdamn BG thanks for USA Light Infantry II I love those critters and are excellent garnison killers. Maybe you devs should relook their stats.

Do I regret buying this game? OMFG NO NO NO

Every patch will be welcomed but I already got my moneys worth plenty of times.

[Graymane]

I know I'll regret asking, but...

You know, I have to think you don't have kids. If you did, you'd realize you are dealing with someone with the emotional maturity of an 8 year old. Spend time on those posts that are constructive with people who want to see the game do well rather than with those that have an axe to grind. When all is said and done, if you don't like the game, you have lost out on a night at the movies, a few drinks at the bar and dinner. People act like they had to sacrifice their first born child to have this game.

[Balthagor]

Actually, my son is 2, so maybe I'm just too new of a parent

But in truth, I'm not trying to come down on vizhon, he has not come back and answered so we should not be jumping all over him. The fact that his recent posts had little to contribute was the reason for my reply. If he is looking to contribute to the community we're always happy to have more members, it's just a case of keeping things on track.

[vizhon]

What is it contributing?

I consider it making quite clear that there are those of us out there that do indeed feel this game is a dismal failure. Others have said it... Gamespot's review hit it right on the nose.

You have picked a game topic that is clearly niche.. Clearly more for the intellectual crowd... Clearly more for the hardcore wargamers... and then twinked it to make it more mainstream in any the process stripped out everything that would apply to the type of gamers that this niche would appeal to.

I thought I had answered the questions above as to what I would like to see changed, and no I don't see conspiracy in every answer I get. What I see is a bunch of design decisions that have no logic or valid arguement behind them other than: It was easier that way... Thus they are excuses and not legit reasons.

Why were the options of different Ministers taken out? Because the AI is too good and all individuality was taken out so it was easier to just take out the option than try to work back in what had been removed.... I LIKED the ministers the way they were. Now they are lame and have all the personality of a door mat.

Why are infrastructures unscrapable?... George claims it's because infrastructures once built aren't destroyed... I lived in California a while... I live in Oregon now. They redesign the highways in both states every few years... I-5 from one year to the next can have sections of it rerouted by miles. I watched half the exits off of 280 coming through San Francisco get torn down and rebuilt in whole new patterns while I lived there. I think it is because it was easier to just not dick with the data once it was in place... Or even possibly that it was just forgotten. I don't believe any real thought even went into it.

Why are units not purchasible? Because, as George put it, the idea of a global arms trade organization didn't seem feasable... Excuse me, but 1.) Units get traded all the time IRL, and 2.) I actually find the idea of the UN and WTO setting up a global arms trade agency quite feasable in the scenario described but there is NO valid reason beyond laziness to not have units tradable.

In adding graphics (which I could have done without), in making the maps bigger, and in adding sound to the game, Battlegoat Studios has completely missed everything that made 2010 enjoyable and instead tried to make the game appeal more to mainstream gamers... Well it don't appeal at all to this hardcore gamer anymore.

In addition, I rather resent the idea of being accused of having the maturity of an 8 year old. Fact is, I never had much chance to be 8 when I was growing up. I am much more mature than that and I challenge anyone to make such a claim on so little info to slap out their credentials in the field of psychology or profiling.

What I do have is a very very short tolerance for being ripped off or lied to. I also have a limited income, having been on disability most of my life from being struck by a car, so $40 for a game to me is pretty much my budget for a month, and in the case of SR2020 I truly feel ripped off. I feel mislead.. I feel lied to. I feel like the advertisement from Paradox and yourselves paints a game much more like the SR2020 I was expecting than this incompletely crippled excuse for a worldwide strategy game.

This game is gimped, crippled, incomplete, insufficient, and I'd like to see George play a game for 100 to 200 years at 3 hours a year and with the AI NEVER improving itself and tell me if that game is any fun, or he's just toying with the AI indefinitely.

Playing the game is like watching a fish tank.

[Argh...]

What I do have is a very very short tolerance for being ripped off or lied to. I also have a limited income, having been on disability most of my life from being struck by a car, so $40 for a game to me is pretty much my budget for a month, and in the case of SR2020 I truly feel ripped off. I feel mislead.. I feel lied to. I feel like the advertisement from Paradox and yourselves paints a game much more like the SR2020 I was expecting than this incompletely crippled excuse for a worldwide strategy game.

This game is gimped, crippled, incomplete, insufficient, and I'd like to see George play a game for 100 to 200 years at 3 hours a year and with the AI NEVER improving itself and tell me if that game is any fun, or he's just toying with the AI indefinitely.

Playing the game is like watching a fish tank.

Ok Sir BG never lied to you. Heck they have the most open forums on the net and aint afraid to take negative postings nor are they moderating them. Hell they even reply to most people with complaints.

What you did? With all do respect you brought this on yourself and should be mad at yourself.
1st demo (you could have tried it and see what the game was like)
2nd do your homework on a game. Meaning dont buy it 1st day. Wait till people start writing about this game or read reviews. Especially if you dont have a large budget....

I absolutly dont agree with your view of this game. (minus the few thing I posted above) It has been full of action, always something to do. Always something going wrong and needs fixing. Maybe I am playing it differently then you or just like other game experiance.

Peace

[Balthagor]

Vizhon, first, I agree that attributing you the maturity of an 8 year old is unnecessary name calling which is why I came to your defense on that, I assume Graymane's temper just got the better of him, he's been a strong contributor since his arrival. But enough on that issue...

I consider it making quite clear that there are those of us out there that do indeed feel this game is a dismal failure. Others have said it... Gamespot's review hit it right on the nose.

So is this the purpose of this thread? To predict our sales? Because like it or not that is the truest benchmark of success or failure in this industry. Reviews also provide some insight but based on our current average we're at least a strong B market title.

You have picked a game topic that is clearly niche...stripped out everything that would apply to the type of gamers that this niche would appeal to.

I would consider that our supply model, diplomacy options, hotspots system and production model are all fashioned after what the more hardcore players are looking for. We have more than just gold and lumber as resources, there are a variety of regional relationships and you can't zerg rush a region larger than Illinois in Campaign games.

I thought I had answered the questions above as to what I would like to see changed, and no I don't see conspiracy in every answer I get. What I see is a bunch of design decisions that have no logic or valid argument behind them other than: It was easier that way... Thus they are excuses and not legit reasons.

Didn't you just see a conspiracy in a paragraph where you claimed not seeing conspiracies? You say that the answers George or Legend have given you so far are only excuses. If you don't believe our answers, what's the point of this thread? A yes, that is the original question...

Why were the options of different Ministers taken out?...

Now this I know that George answered. The "differences" in SR2010 between the ministers did not work out the way we wanted them to from the original design. I played years worth of SR2010 and always, ALWAYS, put the same ministers in the same positions. That is when I remembered to even look at them at all. And when "less capable" ministers made bad choices, we often saw it reported as a bug on the forum! All evidence has shown us that, while a nice concept on paper, it did not work in practice.

Why are infrastructures unscrapable?...

Also been answered. And your examples do not take into account the scale of the game. What we're dealing with is "one road" object that represents mass road systems within a 16 km radius. You're example is of changes made within that radius, not of an entire 16km area having all its roads ripped out and not replaced. That seems highly unrealistic to me. And if you build a road through a mountain, cutting paths that decrease movement penalties, how do you "uncut" the mountain to make the terrain again less passable? You can't.

Why are units not purchasible?...

Hey! You found one we agree on. I really wanted unit trades in the game but George is correct when we says that unit trading caused endless debates in SR2010. It is however a feature that I bring up every time we have a meeting about "what's in the next update" and we did spend about 1-2 hours last week discussing some design ideas for how to move forward on completing this feature. This is just a feature we did not manage to finish in time for street date. I can offer a small apology for that but not much more, the entire team has worked very hard through the development, if it could have been done it would have.

And to clarify, I'm quite certain that you've changed George's words. He did not say it wasn't feasible, he said there were issues. If you're going to quote, be sure of you have understood what the person has said.

Also, you're crossing the line. I don't want to read any more "laziness" comments. Users on this forum treat each other with respect or get banned. Period.

...tried to make the game appeal more to mainstream gamers... Well it don't appeal at all to this hardcore gamer anymore...

Okay, this I had understood. And we've been up front with the fact that we're trying to appeal to a more mainstream market. SR2010 targeted too narrow a group, if we focused only on that group again we'd go bankrupt. Sorry, but that community is not large enough to sustain development costs we incure in developing a game that requires so many research hours.

...What I do have is a very very short tolerance for being ripped off or lied to. I also have a limited income, having been on disability most of my life from being struck by a car, so $40 for a game to me is pretty much my budget for a month, and in the case of SR2020 I truly feel ripped off. I feel mislead.. I feel lied to. I feel like the advertisement from Paradox and yourselves paints a game much more like the SR2020 I was expecting than this incompletely crippled excuse for a worldwide strategy game...

we all have limited income, that is the way of the world. I haven't bought a video game in about 6 months.

but you say you were mislead, lied too and told the game was something it wasn't. How? All we and Paradox have done to promote sales is send out press preview copies, advertise in gaming magazines (with a very simple add that shows little about the game unfortunately), provide a demo and talk on these forums. We did not talk much about what features would be in the game before release in case our feature set changed and since release we have answered every question of is it in or not very clearly. The features you mention above don't appear in the demo either so I'm not sure how you can accuse us of duplicity.

...This game is gimped, crippled, incomplete, insufficient, and I'd like to see George play a game for 100 to 200 years at 3 hours a year and with the AI NEVER improving itself and tell me if that game is any fun, or he's just toying with the AI indefinitely...

I'll ask George to try and estimate how many hours he's played so far and you are of course entitled to your opinions but this thread is now closer than ever to being locked. What exactly are we discussing? This last post of yours was better, you addressed issues you have with the game, but they are all issues that have already been answered, though you seem to have missed or misinterpreted some of those answers. If you'd like more clarification on some of the issues you have with the game fell free to mention them and we'll see what we can do or find their respective threads and continue the discussion there but if this thread is simply for you to repeat your opinion then it serves no purpose...

[supremeoz]

I don't have any problems with the game. I am still trying to get a handle on it but i have no complaints.

As for Gamespot they are hardly a credible source as they tend to be biased. IGN tend to be better at game reviews and don't tend to be biased.

In Australia the game cost me $70.00AU. I am also on a disability pension and i have several disability's from birth. Life for me hasn't been to kind to me at the start but i do the best i can and try and make something out of my life.