More Technology Effects Updated

If you have the desire to modify SR2010 here is where you can discuss and share your designs and ideas. NOTE: Mods are a change to the original program and are not supported by BattleGoat Studios.

Moderators: Balthagor, Legend, Moderators

Post Reply
Amram
Sergeant
Posts: 10
Joined: Nov 03 2008

More Technology Effects Updated

Post by Amram »

I spent some time one by one going through the unlisted numbers for effects, and i have a rather significant number of previously unlisted effects, as follows:

19 finished goods cost
33 finished goods industrial demand
36 hydroponic production
44 consumer goods plant production
45 industrial goods plant production
46 military goods plant production
55 oil derrick production
56 facility production
57 facility production
58 facility production
59 facility production
60 population agri use
61 population ore use
63 population coal usage
64 population uranium usage
69 population industrial goods usage
70 population military goods usage
73 output of ore
74 output of petrol
75 output of coal
76 output of uranium
77 output of timber
82 output of military goods
84 Efficiency of agriculture
85 efficiency of ore
86 efficiency of petrol
87 efficiency of coal
88 efficiency of uranium
89 efficiency of timber
90 efficiency of water
92 efficiency of consumer goods
93 efficiency of industrial goods
94 efficiency of military goods
104 family rating
106 cultural rating
111 environment cost
112 family subsidy cost
114 cultural cost
119 anti air attack values
120 anti ship attack values
121 anti sub attack values

i went as far as 232, one tech at a time, lol, there's a very large number of (null) effects, quite a few blank ones, 7 N/A, and 3 reserved. Only thing i don't know now, is the valid range of entries, not often anything above a few percentage points should be necessary, but one never knows, lol, so, yeah, that's next, heh

It appears the game prefers its values to be between +/-128, or something odd happens, lol, as the numbers below will show.

125 125
126 126
127 127
128 -127
129 -126
130 -125
131 -124

-125 -125
-126 -126
-127 -127
-128 -128
-129 127
-130 126
-131 125

254 -2
255 -1
256 0
257 1
258 2

-254 2
-255 1
-256 0
-257 -1
-258 -2

So, it seems the game reads the number in as an integer(it ignores decimals either way...), adds 128 to it, and stores it as an 8 bit binary number, so, we get a tech range from 0000000 to 1111111, when you exceed that, in binary the number should become 100000000, which gets cut into eight bits, becoming 00000000, or -128(when the game removes the 128 it added when storing the value), or if you go below 00000000, the engine cuts it off to eight bits, and you get 11111111, or 127, one lower still.

I always assumed binary wasn't capable of representing negative numbers, but calc.exe on my pc simply flips to the largest binary number it can represent when trying to show-1, and treats it as a gigantic positive binary number, and continues subtracting. So, the largest values any single tech can change an effect by is -256 to 254 using two effect entries in one tech.
Last edited by Amram on Nov 11 2008, edited 1 time in total.
SGTscuba
General
Posts: 2544
Joined: Dec 08 2007
Location: Tipton, UK

Re: More Technology Effects

Post by SGTscuba »

=> someone please sticky this and add it to the wiki please.

Thanks
My SR:U Model Project, get the latest and post suggestions here:

http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=28040
User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 22082
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: More Technology Effects

Post by Balthagor »

I've stickied it but it should be noted that some of those effects where not implemented.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com
Amram
Sergeant
Posts: 10
Joined: Nov 03 2008

Re: More Technology Effects

Post by Amram »

Balthagor wrote:I've stickied it but it should be noted that some of those effects where not implemented.
hrm. any chance of getting a listing of those that weren't?......if not, in the next day or two i should have the time to test them, and see which ones actually do something(a 1,000% increase ought to be noticeable, lol.........)
User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 22082
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: More Technology Effects

Post by Balthagor »

not sure if there is a list, I'd need to ask George.

Some of the effects are "pressured" and can take 3-6 game months to see the effect. Tech effect testing has always been one of the most difficult tasks.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com
Amram
Sergeant
Posts: 10
Joined: Nov 03 2008

Re: More Technology Effects

Post by Amram »

in that case then, i suppose the easiest approach would be to send the values into the negative(assuming the game doest just up and crash at say, a -110% cost to produce consumer goods, or some other variable, as then i should see the value begin to drop, and eventually, go negative, especially if i really push on the value.

by ramping up the power output effects(such as cold fusion does, which i've noticed is instant), i can test both if the game is happy with value drops of more than -100% pushing cost/output into the negative as well(.....making money producing consumer goods that you then make more money from selling........er, lol), and to what ends i can push the values as well, if it will happily accept stupidly large values, such as beyond 1000%, or if it gets angry at anything below 1%, and such as that.

I have the next couple days off now, so, expect to hear more from me on this.
Pwned9080
Colonel
Posts: 280
Joined: Sep 06 2008
Contact:

Re: More Technology Effects

Post by Pwned9080 »

Couldn't a control enviroment be created to test effects?
Amram
Sergeant
Posts: 10
Joined: Nov 03 2008

Re: More Technology Effects

Post by Amram »

one thing i just thought of that i don't know, with efficiencies, and the tech's that influence them, is there a base efficiency that the tech pushes forwards that your funding level then builds on top of?

such as to say if your power efficiency is funded at a certain level, and is providing for a 79% efficiency, and you develop a tech that add's 10% to power efficiency, does the overall efficiency(once the tech is fully in effect) become 89% if you do not change your funding level, representing the 79% increase from funding, and the 10% base increase from the tech? Or does the efficiency increase boost your effective funding level by 10%, so 100m invested achieves the same efficiency as 110m would have without requiring the extra money to be invested?

im gonna be testing these soon, and as you mentioned some take several months to be fully felt, the only ones i could think of that were likely were the efficiencies, as funding level changes take extended periods to do their work as well--and that i can't remember ever seeing a research efficiency suddenly jump upwards after a completed research.
Amram
Sergeant
Posts: 10
Joined: Nov 03 2008

Re: More Technology Effects

Post by Amram »

Pwned9080 wrote:Couldn't a control enviroment be created to test effects?
for the most part im using south africa in the africa campaign, its tech is 102, and its neighbors are all considerably lower, and it grants me some time to myself with little effort. Then i just push the effect hard enough that i couldn't possibly miss if an effect was achieved, such as having already driven city power generation 5% into the negative, so i know negative outputs are possible, lol. Then im just gonna go thru, and one by one slam them hard with effects, and see what happens.

The only annoying ones i think, are gonna be the efficiencies, but i should see a fairly rapid climb in efficiency if i develop a number of techs achieving a 10,000% boost, heh, even if it takes 3 years to fully increase the effect, that should still be approximately 10% per day, the sole exception being if an efficiency change has a capped value, limiting change per day.....that would make it difficult.
Pwned9080
Colonel
Posts: 280
Joined: Sep 06 2008
Contact:

Re: More Technology Effects

Post by Pwned9080 »

By control enviroment I was meaning a map, or level specifically engineered for testing. The ability to switch other variables off would permit this. For example if supply levels increase it could be seen inaccurately as a bonus. I'm just saying I think this would be better for the devs to use to test effects.
Amram
Sergeant
Posts: 10
Joined: Nov 03 2008

Re: More Technology Effects

Post by Amram »

that is true, but, mostly for small shifts in things, a relatively stable supply system isn't going to account for a gigantic decrease in output, even so far as into negative, which confirms the value is active, as otherwise uranium mines aren't going to start costing me uranium instead of producing some for me; this was my first victim, testing the viability of pushing a value so far negative its production goes negative-tested and confirmed, waiting it out for a week to confirm stable production, then researching a 1day test tech that drove uranium production from 245 to -13....the uranium mine was costing me uranium to operate it.

for anything significant, as long as your goal is to instigate a value shift large enough to overwhelm any other effects on that value, you should easily be able to confirm or deny if something is working, especially if you push in a direction it likely won't go on its own.
Amram
Sergeant
Posts: 10
Joined: Nov 03 2008

Re: More Technology Effects

Post by Amram »

tested and confirmed effective
__________________________
19 finished goods cost
33 finished goods industrial demand
36 hydroponic production
44 consumer goods plant production
45 industrial goods plant production
46 military goods plant production
55 oil derrick production
60 population agri use
73 output of ore
74 output of petrol
75 output of coal
76 output of uranium
77 output of timber
82 output of military goods
84 Efficiency of agriculture
85 efficiency of ore
86 efficiency of petrol
87 efficiency of coal
88 efficiency of uranium
89 efficiency of timber
90 efficiency of water
92 efficiency of consumer goods
93 efficiency of industrial goods
94 efficiency of military goods
104 family rating
106 cultural rating
111 environment cost
112 family subsidy cost
114 cultural cost

More Testing Required
__________________________
56 facility production
57 facility production
58 facility production
59 facility production
119 anti air attack values
120 anti ship attack values
121 anti sub attack values

No apparent effect
__________________________
61 population ore use
63 population coal usage
64 population uranium usage
69 population industrial goods usage
70 population military goods usage


the three attack values still need a little more testing, i lacked the time to lineup one of every type of unit in the game, note their stats, research the test tech, then recheck them. i used a sub, a cruiser, and an AA unit, saw no results from either tech on any of the units. I have not yet started testing to figure out the 4 misc facilities techs, i have ideas what they could be for, but it may prove difficult to figure out. the additional population usage techs failed, as i suspected they would. The techs apply a percentage increase/decrease, any percentage of zero is still zero, so, whether or not the tags work, without some civilian drain to begin with, the tags are useless.
User avatar
Legend
General
Posts: 2531
Joined: Sep 08 2002
Human: Yes
Location: Ancaster, Ontario - BattleGoat Studios
Contact:

Re: More Technology Effects

Post by Legend »

SGTscuba wrote:=> someone please sticky this and add it to the wiki please.

Thanks
you can create a wiki account and add this on your own if you wish.
Post Reply

Return to “Mods”