Feature proposal: Strategic Unit Trading (SUT)

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mrgenie
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Re: Feature proposal: Strategic Unit Trading (SUT)

Post by mrgenie »

Rosalis wrote:
May 16 2020
Its good idea until western powers buy up all the eastern equipment, because they dont have the designs, but got the money to do so. Then its very bad and defeat the purpose of having unique unit designs.

This system as proposed by the rest is too generic. Netherlands doesnt buy cw units from eastern europe, they buy very advanced AA units from USA, tanks from Germany, planes from USA, etc. etc. etc. From their allies not random nations that keep building old units.

That would be step 1, AI stop building useless 70 year old units and step 2 scrapping them. Else the number of deployed units will increase, but its basicly just lagging the game. No point in overflooding the airfields with stuff that get 1 shot.

Nations should only export their excess units. Right now not only with units but also with resources nations export old cw units to Netherlands for example and then build even worse units. Its a loss loss at that point.
Valid arguments. But I don't see why these valid arguments can't be dealt with. Basically these arguments can be dealt with using the current system in place that
you can only buy units and tech which is set in the cvp file, or have it a bit more dynamic in game you have not just NATO vs Warsaw Pact..

But several pacts:
Western, Communist, India, China, Neutral
You can only buy from the group you belong to.

The get rid of useless units is something that needs to be done anyway, regardless of trading
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SGTscuba
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Re: Feature proposal: Strategic Unit Trading (SUT)

Post by SGTscuba »

Several years on. I think that relations between the 2 nations should affect both the price and really if they would even accept an offer at all from the other nation.
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Re: Feature proposal: Strategic Unit Trading (SUT)

Post by AVP »

Scuba, I think your original proposal is great. Alliances and mutual defense treaties should not be needed to make a request to buy modern units from powerful nations. This idea should work as long as you don't have to have the required tech to view the most modern units for sale. I believe you intended this system of working without that problem. Great post again and Battlegoats, PLEASE also include the ability to rename units (and hexes + nations) in MP where others can see the changes. Nothing is more awkward than the Argentine fleet going to war against the British with warships using the prefix USS instead of ARA.
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Re: Feature proposal: Strategic Unit Trading (SUT)

Post by SGTscuba »

AVP wrote:
Oct 03 2022
Scuba, I think your original proposal is great. Alliances and mutual defense treaties should not be needed to make a request to buy modern units from powerful nations. This idea should work as long as you don't have to have the required tech to view the most modern units for sale. I believe you intended this system of working without that problem. Great post again and Battlegoats, PLEASE also include the ability to rename units (and hexes + nations) in MP where others can see the changes. Nothing is more awkward than the Argentine fleet going to war against the British with warships using the prefix USS instead of ARA.
Yes, it should get around the treaty issues and that is the intention as this is what often happens IRL.

I'd even go for them just erasing the ships name and giving it something generic when transferred.
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Re: Feature proposal: Strategic Unit Trading (SUT)

Post by AVP »

SGTscuba wrote:
Oct 04 2022
AVP wrote:
Oct 03 2022
Scuba, I think your original proposal is great. Alliances and mutual defense treaties should not be needed to make a request to buy modern units from powerful nations. This idea should work as long as you don't have to have the required tech to view the most modern units for sale. I believe you intended this system of working without that problem. Great post again and Battlegoats, PLEASE also include the ability to rename units (and hexes + nations) in MP where others can see the changes. Nothing is more awkward than the Argentine fleet going to war against the British with warships using the prefix USS instead of ARA.
Yes, it should get around the treaty issues and that is the intention as this is what often happens IRL.

I'd even go for them just erasing the ships name and giving it something generic when transferred.
I think that's perfect - love it.
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Zuikaku
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Re: Feature proposal: Strategic Unit Trading (SUT)

Post by Zuikaku »

I agree alliance/treaty requirement for unit trade is not needed. Maybe you can only buy latest units if ally ,but even that has no grounds in real life. Instead of alliance requirements I suggest relation level to be relevant for unit trade.

War - unit trade impossible
Hostile - no unit trade possible
Cold - only most obsolete units in very limited quantities
Neutral - obsolete units only
Warm - obsolete units and limited amount of modern units
delighted - purchase of all units possible

That woul'd best reflect world arms market where alliance is not prereq for trading latest equipment. E.G. Saudi Arabia is not formal US ally but has access to most of the latest unit designs. The same can be applied to Turkey and Russia.
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Balthagor
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Re: Feature proposal: Strategic Unit Trading (SUT)

Post by Balthagor »

Okay, this feature as gotten some attention, and I've tested it out enough that I'm willing to talk about it.

SR2030 adds a new interface for Strategic Unit Trading.
  • You can sell any of your reserved units to the World Market
  • Units sold to the WM can be purchased by anyone
  • Does not allow sales of Leg Infantry units
  • Deployed units can be issued a "sell" order. They will go to reserves and be sold.
  • Unit pricing is affected by a number of factors, including the World Market opinion of a nation, the age of the unit design and how long it's been available on the market. Old units sitting on the market for a long time will become cheaper to buy, but at a certain point the World Market will simply choose to scrap it for parts.
At this time the system does not address the concept of commissioning/requesting construction of a unit from a region based on a design. The WM acts as arms dealer.
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Re: Feature proposal: Strategic Unit Trading (SUT)

Post by AVP »

Chris, that’s awesome. Thank you for working to implement this concept into the game and I look forward to seeing what further development on this feature brings to future titles as well! Seriously incredible.

A few questions I had:
1.) Would the existing system for selling units to other regions still exist in SR30? Let’s say I didn’t want to put a battalion’s worth of M1A2’s on the market available for any buyer and instead only wanted to sell that equipment to a specific region. This would still be possible, correct?

2.) Can you sell half a unit to the market? Maybe I only had a couple of companies worth of X equipment.

3.) Does the manpower transfer with the equipment to the buying region or is it returned to the selling nation once it’s put up for sale and the buying nation then has to provide manpower to field the unit after purchase?

4.) I know diplomatically traded units, which moved from
buyer to seller, was one feature that ran into snags in the previous title. If a system, such as the one I proposed where trade is represented on map, existed, would sold units now be able to transfer between regions via Road, Rail, Sea, and Air using those special trade units which could cross neutral territory as long as a trade access treaty exists or is the destination country? I can elaborate if needed.

Thanks.
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Balthagor
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Re: Feature proposal: Strategic Unit Trading (SUT)

Post by Balthagor »

1. yes, unit trades through diplomacy are unchanged

2. Only if you split it. We still need to test how selling of damaged units works within the system, theoretically it's fine, they just won't repair till purchased.

3. Manpower is not transferred, units go to reserve as part of the sale.

4. Units purchased from the world market are delivered to the capital, using the "magic transport" concept. Basic notes have been made around the future possibilities of this being affected by an embargo system, but that system isn't part of the release plan.
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Re: Feature proposal: Strategic Unit Trading (SUT)

Post by AVP »

Copy all, thanks.
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Re: Feature proposal: Strategic Unit Trading (SUT)

Post by SGTscuba »

Balthagor wrote:
Nov 22 2022
Okay, this feature as gotten some attention, and I've tested it out enough that I'm willing to talk about it.

SR2030 adds a new interface for Strategic Unit Trading.
  • You can sell any of your reserved units to the World Market
  • Units sold to the WM can be purchased by anyone
  • Does not allow sales of Leg Infantry units
  • Deployed units can be issued a "sell" order. They will go to reserves and be sold.
  • Unit pricing is affected by a number of factors, including the World Market opinion of a nation, the age of the unit design and how long it's been available on the market. Old units sitting on the market for a long time will become cheaper to buy, but at a certain point the World Market will simply choose to scrap it for parts.
At this time the system does not address the concept of commissioning/requesting construction of a unit from a region based on a design. The WM acts as arms dealer.
Nice! Can't wait to take it for a spin.

Is there a way to take them back out of the reserves if they aren't sold or is it like SR2010 that once its gone to the reserve its gone? Don't mind either way though and I hope the AI knows how to use this (both buying and selling)
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Balthagor
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Re: Feature proposal: Strategic Unit Trading (SUT)

Post by Balthagor »

Sales are instant, as soon as they reach reserves the transaction completes and you've got the money. You can buy it back from the market almost immediately, but buying price and selling price aren't always the same, you'd likely lose some money if you changed your mind after selling.
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SGTscuba
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Re: Feature proposal: Strategic Unit Trading (SUT)

Post by SGTscuba »

Balthagor wrote:
Nov 27 2022
Sales are instant, as soon as they reach reserves the transaction completes and you've got the money. You can buy it back from the market almost immediately, but buying price and selling price aren't always the same, you'd likely lose some money if you changed your mind after selling.
good to know.
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sparky282
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Re: Feature proposal: Strategic Unit Trading (SUT)

Post by sparky282 »

I never saw this oringinally but its a great idea and could really help the player buy the units you need and the AI get rid of units cant wait to try it out :D
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