Finish What You Start

For general talk about Supreme Ruler 2010

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Balthagor
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Post by Balthagor »

Squigbunny wrote:...I got a buggy game for my money...
I would outright challenge you to support this statement. Our first update for the game was available the same day the game released and I can only think of one serious "crash to desktop" bug in the release version (accessing silos IIRC) that was fixed within a month of release with the second update.

While people may agree or disagree on how much improvement Supreme Ruler 2010 should have gotten post release, I will never heistate to put myself out there by saying that Supreme Ruler 2010 remains one of the most stable software titles on the market. We had more errors caused by NVidia drivers than our own code.
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Post by BigStone »

Balthagor wrote:
Squigbunny wrote:...I got a buggy game for my money...
I would outright challenge you to support this statement.
I wouldn't pay to much attention to this ****..... :evil:
I've been looking in the buglist and there are NO bugs reported by the guy...

If i was a Goat... i had locked this b*llsh*t topic already....
Last edited by BigStone on Oct 24 2006, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by dust off »

Yep, got to agree that
Buggy
seems to be misused here.
SR2010 is as stable, if not the most stable, game I've ever had.
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Balthagor
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Post by Balthagor »

BigStone wrote:I wouldn't pay to much attention to this fool..... :evil: ...
I doubt he's a fool, after all he's playing Supreme Ruler 2010 :D and while he may not have submitted any bug reports being a late arrival to the forum, he has made many good posts. He's allowed to be disappointed, we can't be everything to everyone, some ppl will want something different than what we've created. I only took issue with the bug statement because I believe it is wrong.
BigStone wrote:If i was a Goat... i had locked this b*llsh*t topic already....
Thankfully we don't need to do much of that. Users on this forum have generally shown good behaviour so it's rare that we need to lock out threads. We reply honestly and let ppl have their say. After all, what is a forum without discussion :)
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Post by BigStone »

I've have rather no discussions then one based on false and incorrect arguments.

But now you seems to keep this thing alive... goodluck
I quit with it
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Post by Squigbunny »

Well, well what a lot of emotive people we have here! Sorry I burst your bubble (not!) :roll: If you disagree with me say so and why and I'll respond as to my thinking - don't have a tantrum like a spoiled child!

Thank you at least, Balthagor, for not getting involved in the flaming. It seems that some of the shoot first, think later crowd failed to read my post in the way it was intended and went ballistic in consequence - well tough luck - but unlike them I've had my say without resorting to making personal attacks - strange really since one or two of the other postings here were rather more critical than the one I posted.

To restate the point. I bought SR2010 within a few months of it's initial release (you know the Strategy First one) and it did as a matter of fact contain bugs - for the selective readers - take the shades off and look at the bug reporting section of the forum - I was going to make a facetious comment here but the irony would be wasted. As I said in my post, these have gradually been fixed since the initial release by the developers as I said in my post. For those of you that have selective reading you will note that I mentioned that the developers were responsive to the community.

As to the housekeeping update point - this was merely illustrative of some of the minor things which have been mentioned in the forums - some by me (e.g. getting rid of irrelevant platforms, references to non-used technology), some by others (e.g. alpha sorts of technology, "regional" leader pics) all of which are relative no-brainers to implement.

I'm staggered that some posters on the forum got so bent out of shape over my earlier post - I had not attacked anyone but merely stated an opinion - Still sometimes some people just can't handle something that doesn't accord with their rosy view of the world without getting all emotional - very common with very young children too! Some of the other posts made in this thread particularly those critical of the AI etc, may have some validity too but clearly to correct some of the points made there would take considerable effort on the part of the developers compared to the sort of things I was suggesting in my post.

Certainly some progress was made with the AI in the last update or so to make it more aggressive, but for example it seems to be lacking still with amphibious warfare and air operations as stated elsewhere.

I do hope that in future the flamers to my posts will just take the time to properly read my posts without being "selective", challenge what they disagree with in a polite, civilised way and so get their reply. If they cannot handle a critical post because it is not fawning then they will just have to get over it.

As to when I became active on the forum - is that really a relevant issue?
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Post by Squigbunny »

Squigbunny wrote:That said the developers showed commitment to the game by way of a number of updates/patches and were quite responsive to the community. It wasn't a perfect game, but it wasn't a bad one either.
Hey - to the selective reader's: you must have missed this bit! :lol:
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Balthagor
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Post by Balthagor »

I do understand that you’re not trying to be overly critical, but I suspect some of the responses you got were because of the thread that you revived with your post. It had been a fairly critical thread to begin with and you started your post saying that you “strongly empathise” with the original author. That’s going to make ppl lump you in the same category. Not trying to justify anyone being rude to anyone else, just trying to shed some light on the causes. As you stated, I’ll be the one to work at keeping us on a topic and not resorting to flaming (and you have to admit, flames on this board are pretty small potatoes :P )
Squigbunny wrote:…To restate the point. I bought SR2010 within a few months of it's initial release…
First up, thanks! We do certainly appreciate every sale.
Squigbunny wrote:…and it did as a matter of fact contain bugs…
While this fact is true, there where bugs, your previous comment;
Squigbunny wrote:...I got a buggy game for my money...
tends to imply that it was fully of inconvenient and annoying bugs that popped up all over the place. There is a big difference in my mind between a “buggy game” (Battlecruiser 3000 anyone?) and a game with bugs. There is not a single game in the world that does not have bugs in it… maybe Pong, but that’s it. The point I made in my reply to your post was that to label us a “buggy game” is something I take issue with because of the number of bugs in our game being extremely low and the number of serious bugs (things like a list saying it has 3 priorities when it only has two really is not serious) being probably around 20 or so. I feel our limited number of bugs compared to the game complexity makes us an example to be followed in the industry.
Squigbunny wrote:...As to the housekeeping update point...
While it’s true that some of the elements you suggested as housekeeping would take little time to implement, the question remains where do we find that time when we devote all our resources to improving the more important areas such as AI, diplomatic effects and adding more units to tie in unused techs? And elements such as more varied minister pics when we have no graphic artists on staff makes that entirely beyond our resources without additional invested capital in the project. What also hurts your argument for this being something we should be chastised for is the limited number of users asking for these changes and the fact that, in particular for removing unused techs and redundant units, anyone on this forum could mod this in 2-3 days. Considering I work a few hours every Saturday and Sunday beyond my normal workweek, we can’t devote the resources here in the studio.
Squigbunny wrote:...Some of the other posts made in this thread particularly those critical of the AI etc, may have some validity...
This may also be the reason for other members getting worked up. The recognize that with our limited resources any work devoted to superficial changes is time taken away from what they see as more important issues. For the most part I agree with that.
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Post by Squigbunny »

Chris

First, thank you for your courteous response. I think that things have got way disproportionate about this post. For the record I happen to like SR2010 and it rewards the learning curve in my opinion. That said I tried to illustrate a historical development where the game when I bought it (first release) contained "bugs" however they may be categorised, and they did effect gameplay, though credit where it's due, these were IMO heavily eliminated by the updates. My comment regarding "buggy game" must be read in this context. In hindsight and your comment I would have expressed my thoughts slightly differently to avoid the implication of suggesting that the game is unplayable or rubbish - which was never my intention when I made the post.

The game you will recall in the heady days of that first release - if of course you could get a copy - and I paid a premium price to get my US export copy at the time - was hailed in the press and websites as being the definitive, ultra realistic etc etc, so it should come as no surprise if my expectations were higher than normal regarding a game. Perhaps this is why Eric and Noble 713 made the comments they did, both of which are far more fundamental and critical than mine. You will note that I also acknowledged that the developers had shown commitment to the product with a number of updates and that they listened and responded to the community.

I expressed a sadness at the failure to tidy up what I perceive to be the ragged edges - yes they are superficial and trivial - and accordingly that is why I believed they would have been simple to implement - to what is I believe a very good game. Compared to the onerous work involved in dealing with some of the complex AI issues raised elsewhere it seemed on the face of things to be relatively easy to solve and resource. It represented a tidy finish to what many owners of SR2010 would consider a very good game. I used a mixture of examples in respect of what might have been included; some my own and some - like the varied leader pictures - that others have posted.

I am somewhat curious, that you say:

"While it’s true that some of the elements you suggested as housekeeping would take little time to implement, the question remains where do we find that time when we devote all our resources to improving the more important areas such as AI, diplomatic effects and adding more units to tie in unused techs?"

Does this mean that you are doing another update for SR2010, or does this refer solely to SR2020? My comments were based upon the fact that you had intimated that you weren't continuing for resource reasons to update SR2010, which is why I thought a housekeeping update was not too much to ask, so as to tidy up some of the small but niggly issues - hence adding my comment to the "finish what you started" thread.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I assume your comment re current resources refers to SR2020. If so, I'm sorry that you won't be doing a housekeeping update for SR2010, but I understand your reasons. :-)
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Post by Balthagor »

You are correct that I was referring to 2020 development. Continued work on 2010 stopped because we have all our resources now working on the new project.

I still hold that (other than the minister pics, which have been completed to the total original design and never called for more pictures than what is there) the housekeeping elements you want can be done by a mod.

And I suppose there is a slight bit of SR2010 work still ongoing, I've been working on and off with the french game community and spanish game community who are developping a translation to their respective languages. Blackbeans European releases only translated the documentation, not the game, and I've spent some of my off hours helping to implement those (particularly the french one since I myself speak french). There remains some chance I might personnally chose to spend some of my free time participating in the post-release modding. I do also keep following SR2010 discussions here and recently updated the Wiki 2010 modding section. But these are things I work on "off the clock" so any of that you're at the mercy of my own personal motivation...

To address your first post, your recent post certainly makes it clearer what you meant about bugs so I thank you for clarifying and for sharing your opinions. We do try and digest everything we read to consider how to move forward.
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Post by BigStone »

Finally some common sense in this topic.... i'll take that "fool" back.
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Post by Feltan »

For anyone new reading these forums: take heart, the game is NOT buggy. I have a few hundred hours logged playing, and have not had any crashes, nor witnessed any anomolious behavior.

Experienced players argue over the implementation of certain features and concepts -- but that is a big difference from a game that won't run or crashes frequently.

Regards,
Feltan
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Post by stuarttank »

how do you become a beta tester then?
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Post by Draken »

You will have to wait for an announcement from BG regarding this for SR2020...

The development of SR2010 is over.
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Post by hdisney »

Feltan wrote:For anyone new reading these forums: take heart, the game is NOT buggy. I have a few hundred hours logged playing, and have not had any crashes, nor witnessed any anomolious behavior.

Experienced players argue over the implementation of certain features and concepts -- but that is a big difference from a game that won't run or crashes frequently.

Regards,
Feltan

I second this comment. This game is a very stable, and probably the most comprehensive strategy game on the market. I'm looking forward to SR2020 as well.
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