Is it possible?

[jhawk8810]

Hi all, I'm Chris, I'm a relatively new member, but not new to the forum. I introduced myself in a previous thread in the economics section, which many off you probably haven't read, lol. But I have a question there that I would like answered if anyone could take a look and answer it, but also I have an idea that I am wondering if it is possible or feasible to implement in this game or a future game of this engine, because I love this game and engine, it is amazing. I'm not really sure where this post should belong..maybe econ, maybe prod, maybe wishlist, but I figured I would post here and I would get the most responses here anyways, lol. But my idea has to do with the economy and the GDP/C. I'm kinda makin this up as I go so give me a break and anybody else with any ideas or tweaks those would be great. Would it be possible to incorporate the GDP/C directly to the demand for goods? similar to the current system but different. As I understand it the current system for consumer production demand is a formula of (ex. 1 unit timber/per person, .25 unit consumer good/person, 4 units water/per person) those figures may not be correct, but the formula is what I'm getting at. So could you set the system up so that we just use the GDP/C as an average, because you wouldn't be able to model every indivdual person and income in the game. So we use the GDP/C and the total population. So lets say for the purposes of example that an average a person is going to spend 95% of their income in a given year. so with a GDP/C of $20000 that person is going to spend $19000 on ag, consumer goods, property taxes, and so on etc. and you could use the basic same principle of so many units per person but as a percentage of GDP/C. So code it so that for every one person 10% of their spent GDP/C ($19000) which would be $1900 which would have to be reduced down to daily which would be $5.21 a day goes toward agriculture, 12% goes toward water, 5% consumer goods, and so on. So that when you increase or decrease your domestic markup, their demand will increase or decrease. Because they will be willing to spend the same amount of money (same percentage of their income) on that individual product. So if you are producing electricity at $100 p/unit and one person will spend $500 on electricity if you have your domestic sales set at $110 they will buy 4 units or 4.55 to be exact, whereas if you set it at $150 they will only buy 3 units or 3.33. So money spent on the product will stay the same, but demand will fluctuate. I know that was complicated, sorry, and I know that it isn't exactly more realistic, but I think it be better for the game. In real life when the price of something decrease doesnt mean that you will automatically increase the amount that you spend on that product, you more than likely use that money you saved there elsewhere, but that would be extremely hard to model in a game, and at least this way that money is still staying in your economy as it would. This does happen in real life sometimes too though, if the price of gasoline reduces I will go to topeka more often i will drive my car more often demanding more gasoline because it is cheaper. So I think this model could be better than the current system. Anybody else have any ideas, or where I screwed up, or anything?? Thanks a lot BG I love the game just tryin to help improve it the next go around.

[Legend]

An interesting post/thread so far. I need a bit of clarification though. Are you proposing to tie GDP/c to demand? So a region with a higher GDP/c would demand more than a region with a lower GDP/c?

GDP/c already affects demand. There is a per map rate and demand is tied to the world level GDP/c. Most maps have this value at $2,100. Then regions in this map are modified from this level based on their GDP/c. A region with $800/ person demands less and a region with $25,000 demands more products and services already.

Does this help?

Is this what you are asking for?
If so, we already do it. Is there something in the game, an example of a region where you want to see it acting differently than it does?

-- Daxon

[Khapheen]

I like his idea, but there is also a multiplier effect. A dollar introduced into the economy is spent several times over. That being said, a country or society's MPC (propensity to spend) is affected by their outlook for the future. Maybe demand could be depressed by war?

[jhawk8810]

NOOOOO!! I HATE LAPTOP TOUCHPADS!!! I had my post all written and the fricken thing went back on me!! grrr!!! ok well lets see... Legend thank you, and you did clarify some things for me. There are some aspects already here which I did not know, and yes I am proposing to tie GDP/c to demand, and I realize that the current system already does that, but I think my idea would do it more effectively (but I could be flawed). As far as I understand the current system it is based on a unit/person ratio. So in a map where one person demands .25 consumer goods and the avg. GDP is $21000
A region with a GDP/c of $10000 would demand .10 consumer goods per person
A region with a GDP/c of $21000 would demand .25 consumer goods per person
and A region with a GDP/c $25000 would demand .30 consumer goods per person
(ratios prob not correct but you get the point) this is how it works right?
And so while the current system does tie demand to GDP/c, which I like and employ in my idea, it does not account for domestic markups. Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I understand lets take a region with $21000 GDP/c that individual who demands .25 consumer goods is going to buy that .25 consumer goods whether the domestic markup is at 7% or 35%. Correct?
In my plan instead of using a unit/person ratio I propose a percentage unit/person ratio, lol not a lot different but will account for dom markup changes. because in a region of $21000 GDP/c
set the ratio for consumer goods at lets say..5% of their GDP/c so they will buy however many units they can get for that amount of money. So the dom markup comes into play, because lets say they have $100 alloted to consumer goods. and you sell it at a markup to $25 well then they will buy 4 units. but if you mark it up to $33 then they will only buy 3 units because you rose the price, their demand went down. and same thing if you lower the mark up to $10 then they will buy 10 units, greatly increasing your demand for consumer goods. So this ties both the GDP/c and the domestic markup to demand.
and thank you for the support khapheen!! lol, it took me a little while to grasp what you were saying, lol (rough day at work). But I think with this idea what you are saying is already incorporated, at least the demand depressed by war would be realistically. Because lets say enter a war, well now you are going to need to produce lots of military goods, for unit repairs, building new units, etc. which cost industrial goods, pet, electricity, etc. and also petroleum for your units. so your demand of these products is going to increase..probably beyond your production capabilities, so you will raise domestic markup on petroleum so less of your population will demand and buy it and you have more left over for your industrial and military goods, electricty, and for units and military uses. you will probably also raise domestic markup on other products such as agri, cons goods, etc. so that demand will be less, you can produce less, to save money to keep you from being in the red millions of dollars for your increased military readiness costs, military goods costs, etc. So demand would be decreased in order to prioritize your needs for your produced goods and to save you money. Although I do not think this would address your MPC and basically the outlook for the future, everyone's a stock broker, bear or bull market, buy or sell, but I have no idea how you could incorporate this into the game. sorry...but I believe your want for demand being domestic demand being reduced during a war would be met by my plan, any other ideas/comments anyone? Thanks Legend and let me know what you think.
Chris

[jhawk8810]

Ok well thanks everybody for the outstanding number of replies .. I came up with some more ways or some more things you could tie into an economic system like i was talking about..still havent heard back from legend whether or not this is a lot different from the current system (i think it is but he wasn't sure), so legend a reply letting me know what you think or if it's possible or you like it, w/e would be nice, thanks. um.. so this could pry go in the econ or wishlist section but oh well, I was thinking that with my idea, as i had laid out, an individual would use a certain percentage of their GDP to spend on goods, I had initially thought this percentage fixed, but it just occured to me that it could work great as a variable, for instance, in this example I will use personal income tax, you could tie the percentage to personal income tax, so at a GDP/c of $20,000 with income tax set at 30% the person will spend 80% of their income/GDP/c. so at 20% income tax the person will spend 86% of their income/GDP/c. The only issue i can think of with this, is that it would basically eliminate the need and use of the seperate tax brackets, since my idea uses the average GDP/c for everyone, which would be considered the middle income i think, only the middle income tax would really matter. Sales tax could be automatically factored in to the domestic markup (if this isn't done already). I dunno if it does so this is more of a question, does the unemployment tax lower unemployment, i havent seen any major affect one way or the other..if it doesn't i think it should. lowering the corporate income tax could raise the GDP/c as businesses get to keep more of their profits they increase the wages paid out. Whereas raising it too high would result in lower GDP/c and could result in a declining income from corporate tax reflecting the businesses going to other countries/regions to get away from high taxes. I think lowering property tax could slightly raise demand for timber, pet, and industrial goods..reflecting the increase in people buying new homes, building new homes, (timber, industrial goods) and moving to those homes (pet.). I think the lowering user rate fees could affect your social programs, primarily maybe cutural sibsidies? ex. user rate fees applies to a patriotic flight show, and this is funded through cutural sibsidies? so the demand for these shows goes up because more people can afford it the lower the cost, so the more you planes you fly and the more shows you have. Another neat aspect that could be incorporated into a new game would be garbage/trash. Similar to SimCity, you could have a hex with a landfill, or a trash incinerator that provides electrical power, or recycling plants, each with unique pros/cons. garbage could be a huge project, affected by enviroment funding, by industrial goods/finished goods plants (all those boxes), so some of the production facilities have unfortuantate side effects of producing their product...just some ideas...anyone have any other ideas? questions? like dislike? legend could any of this be possible to implement in a game or would you? if you hate the idea, that's fine.. just some though..thanks
Chris