World scenarios are meaningless

[The_Blind_One]

I wouldn't go as far as saying ''We couldn't code it so we'll say that the lack of gameplay is actually a feature'', since I never really said it's a "feature", I just pointed out that "that's the way it is", and that there are still lots of ways to play at the world level.

-- George.

Well u did say...

First off, I entirely disagree about how this makes the world scenarios 'useless'. What does happen is that the world level plays in a certain way which puts the human player into a role where he/she must make the moves and take the initiative.

as if it's a feature that the AI lacks the abilities the human player can. I think the AI should always be able to do what the player can, specialy in a strategy game, I've seen the AI of command & conquer do ampihious attacks why not this game? civilization and even europa universalis a game wich also uses attrition in some form.

Btw, is this update 5 the end of the updates? I actually hope so, I hope u guys will work on a new SR2010, a better one with more oriontation to long-term gameplay, you're last SR2010 is great but it can be so much more, allow customizability and modding, the playerbase will love u for it. Considering that update 5 took like 6 months to complete, I figure that the bulk of the team is gone or off doing other projects, I wonder if u guys have any new projects up ur sleeve?

[bergsjaeger]

I was right about BG. They are hooked up to machines. Seen George was on last nite around 12 am central time. i also think BG should work on new games before they need to worry about patching Sr2010 any more. That or go on a vacation for a month or so.

[rhjyyz]

Forgive my using the term useless.. as there are always uses for things. I didn't mean to sound harsh, I just couldn't believe the AI was not capable of doing transport. I love the game as it is, I just wish the AI could do whatever the human could do thats all, good or bad.

Heck, I suck at military tactics. If I was playing Japan and AI China invaded me I'd probably get wiped out anyway regardless of how bad the Ai did it, just by sheer numbers of units it could deploy. It could commit just 25% of its forces (that would still leave well over 3/4 million in its active military defending its homeland in case it failed)and I'd probably be toast.

Now for those who can do the 12000/0 kills/loss ratio then it might be a hopeless task for the AI and would provide some humor. But for the rest of us it might provide an added challenge.

Maybe in SR 2020. LOL

[Eric Larsen]

George,
Unfortunately I agree that the world scenarios are worthless, although they are the only ones I will play. Aside from the really poor performance of the AI's as regards amphibious and airborne assualts there are other issues that ruin the world level games.

I'd give the title of "Diplomacy Lost" to update 5. While previously it was way too cheap to bribe the AI's, now it is way too expensive. I'm playing my Americas versus the World grouping variant and have finally found the sweet spot for getting both side's belligerency down. I'm playing both sides actually so I've been trading $100 billion both ways to get the belligerency down. I've also been doing all the diplomacy treaties to help this out and am trading tech and unit designs as well every turn. What I see with this new diplomatic change is a way to cover up the pathetic pperformance of the AI's for long-term play. The AI's are only capable of giving short term amusement because the AI's are totally pathetic at economics, research, and military play.

Until the AI's are capable of upgrading or even building new economic facilities the AI's can only sustain short-term games because they're geared to maximum military unit buildup regardless of whether they can afford it or not. After about a year the AI's just plain bankrupt themselves and their Domestic Approval is way down around 29% which just makes them that much easier to take out quickly. In my current game I'm actually controlling everything for the AI so that I'm scrapping the entire military force sans a few units stuck on islands with no airfields or ports. I'm also building up economic facilities and handling research so that by the end of 8 years of gameplay I'll have a World Union AI that will have an excellent DAR, a modern well-balanced armed forces the equal of mine in quality and superior in quantity, and all the research I have including full satellite coverage for all three satelite types. I'm rather curious to see how the AI reacts when it can see as well as I do, I'm wondering if it's navy will charge across the oceans to get at mine.

On the world level there are many bugs regarding the world market. I've found illegal immigration/emigration that stems from world market routines that are not cancelled at the world level even though the world market is supposed to be nonexistent. The annual budgeted trade number is also way off the mark because world market factors are factored into that number whne the world market is supposed to be nonexistent.

Everything I see is that this game is skewed too far towards the little scenarios that only last a year. The world level suffers because world market routines are not taken out of the game when it should be. The world level suffers from short-sighted AI routines that make AI's completely worthless opponents over long-term world-level play.

It really makes me wonder why the heck have research in the game that's supposed to last for decades when the whole game system is geared towards the smaller scenarios that last only a year. The AI's just plain suck at research and have such a limited short-term list of unit designs that once they've run through them they research absolutely nothing afterwards. Not much of a challenge stomping on technologically backwards AI's and that problem just gets worse as time progresses.

Until BG gets it's act together giving us a decent AI that can play world level games over many years the world level scenarios are something of a bust. Sad because the world level is the only level where all aspects of the game can be fully enjoyed and implemented. I really hope you'll make a concerted effort to improve the AI vastly so that world-level games are truly enjoyable and a challenge over time. Diplomacy should be more than who has the most military buildcap and let's all gang-bang the big bully. When the big bully is actually an AI it's sad to watch the AI's go at each other while the human player laughs and keeps on researching, building up his economy and military and then when he decides it's time to take out an AI it's just a cakewalk.
Thanks,

Eric Larsen

[BigStone]

When the big bully is actually an AI it's sad to watch the AI's go at each other while the human player laughs and keeps on researching, building up his economy and military and then when he decides it's time to take out an AI it's just a cakewalk.
Thanks,

The biggest problem in here is that the AI doesn't develop its own region.
In ONE word: COMPETITION....

[Syagrius]

I just installed the game yesterday and I am eager to play with it However I noticed that in the campain mode, it seems you have to choose a scenario and then a "country". I want to play Rome, so I chose the Italy scenario. However the victory condition for the Italy scenario is "unification". Does that mean that if I unify Italy my game is done? I wanted to play Rome for a complete victory and world domination, is it possible?

Thanks

[Balthagor]

In Scenario mode you can play any way you like one any map but there is no progression. The Campaign follows a storyline so you cannot change the victory condition. If you start from one of the Roman sub-regions the default is unification. Once you will that scenario you will face opponents in Europe then opponents at the world level. If you fail to win the unification you will be asked if you wish to reject the unification results which should give you what you are looking for.

[Syagrius]

In Scenario mode you can play any way you like one any map but there is no progression. The Campaign follows a storyline so you cannot change the victory condition. If you start from one of the Roman sub-regions the default is unification. Once you will that scenario you will face opponents in Europe then opponents at the world level. If you fail to win the unification you will be asked if you wish to reject the unification results which should give you what you are looking for.

Thanks for the answer. What do you mean by "there is no progression"?

[Lightbringer]

A "scenario" is a one shot game. Once the victory conditions are met, or time runs out, the game is over. A "campaign" is several scenarios linked together. You start out in a small area, Italy for example, then if you are succesful, you move on to the larger area surrounding Italy (Europe I believe...or western Europe) eventually you will control one of the large Regions, Europe, North or South America, Africa Etc. and try to take control of the world.

[Balthagor]

That ^ is what I meant

[Syagrius]

Yes I understand, but what I dont get is that we have a scenario to choose in the campaing screen.

[Balthagor]

That is the scenario from which you begin your campaign. From there on it follows a set path.

[Syagrius]

Okay thanks for info