Casus Belli

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Samuel the Great
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Casus Belli

#1 Post by Samuel the Great » Jul 07 2006

I'm looking for a list of all the things I can do as of the latest patch to stop other people from getting Belli on me.

Il Duce
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#2 Post by Il Duce » Jul 07 2006

Play nicely.

My biggest problem, across all versions is that I can rarely get enough belli to justify attack, or to be attacked.
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously [but otherwise, they do not worry and are happy].

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#3 Post by Samuel the Great » Jul 07 2006

Il Duce wrote:Play nicely.

My biggest problem, across all versions is that I can rarely get enough belli to justify attack, or to be attacked.
Any specifics? Whenever I just sit around and try to be friendly, it still goes up.

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#4 Post by Il Duce » Jul 07 2006

Bullet items - with comments below...

-- Build your economy - keep GDP and DAR on the rise.
-- Payoff bonds and avoid deficit economics.
-- Control inflation and ensure fair prices domestically.
-- Minimize buildcap.
-- Do not antagonize without an intended effect.

Building your economy means many things - basically get as self-sufficient as you can, and keep efficiency up (without actually spending on efficiency). For instance: if you have three timber plants producing a potential of 135% of needs, try upgrading or replacing with new ones until you get this down to two live ones producing the same potential, and retaining one in deactivated state. See inflation comment below.

Payoff bonds - before you start giving away money to buy alliances, avoid interest overheads and demonstrate your leadership by running a debt-free economy. Besides, in a pinch you might want to borrow at really low interest rates to offer a loan at a slightly higher rate to a struggling debt-ridden region. This is just obviously good and the WM will also approve.

Controlling inflation and ensuring fair prices domestically - very mysterious topic. here's a clue. Assuming that you are already stable at about 3% - when inflation starts to rise, tweak the production rate of your factories down until they are just producing the minimum. This is frequently at around 98%. This also assumes that in your first year you spent most of your time aggressively tuning the prices of things like consumer goods to find out the topmost limit and then tweaked that price down until GDP started to rise and your ministers stop squawking. Controlling things like immigration will help to stabilize prices. Once you find out what growth rate your region can support, you can open up immigration again. Aggressively trading surpluses for profit is a real good way to generate belli under certain conditions. Many regions (AI or Human) will be relying on income from surplus sales, and when you jiggle the markets around on them it has a more dramatic effect (internally) than you might imagine - thus they will come to regard you as a threat. The extremely simplified paradigm for inflation control that I mention here is largely religious (although it often works well for me). Everyone will have their own point of view. That's just fine with me.

Minimize buildcap - pretty well discussed as being a primary metric for WM favor and general indication of your belligerence. Shut down as much as possible - especially early on, when you can't afford to build and don't have the resources to support a massive army. You'd be surprised how folks just mindlessly leave bases online. If you aren't building aircraft, put up a few airstrips and shut down 6 points of airbase. Replace underutilized MilBases with smaller ones. Build supply depots to replace the supply that s lost when shutting down these bases. Toggle them off and on aggressively as needed.

Do not antagonize without an intended effect. Fairly obvious. Make a point of scanning your relationships with adjacent regions (especially) every month or more frequently to see if your border activites, or other things, are bothering them. Is this what you wanted to happen? Did bribing a remote region adjacent to them upset them? Put youself in that region's place and think about it. Likewise - are they trying to provoke you? And should you respond?


Overall, if you are running a 'happy' region, the AI's are hard pressed to attack you as there seems to be no advantage to trying to hold territory that actively dislikes you. In update 5 partisans have been added - haven't really seen what they can do, but it is safe to assume that it is easier to get along with a neighbor than risk trying to hold highly unstable territory that you have taken from them.

Walk softly and carry a big stick.
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously [but otherwise, they do not worry and are happy].

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#5 Post by Samuel the Great » Jul 07 2006

Ah, very helpful stuff. Thanks.

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#6 Post by BigStone » Jul 08 2006

Il Duce wrote:My biggest problem, across all versions is that I can rarely get enough belli to justify attack, or to be attacked.
It seems to me that now when you place your troops around the borders
it has a bigger diplo impact (even triggers a war)... 8)
NO MORE NOISY FISH [unless they are green & furiously]
I HAVE STILL A FISH IN MY EAR

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#7 Post by Samuel the Great » Jul 08 2006

BigStone wrote:
Il Duce wrote:My biggest problem, across all versions is that I can rarely get enough belli to justify attack, or to be attacked.
It seems to me that now when you place your troops around the borders
it has a bigger diplo impact (even triggers a war)... 8)
Absolutely. Heck, even having alot of troops active seems to raise it like there's no tomorrow.

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#8 Post by Il Duce » Jul 08 2006

hmmm... Doesn't seem to be the case for me. Must be something overall in my approach. Even heavy border activity [including the flagrant use of mobile radar units] is not necessarily in itself provocative. Perhaps I walk too softly or carry too big a stick.
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#9 Post by BigStone » Jul 08 2006

Il Duce wrote:hmmm...
Indeed.... it seems that i've been AGAIN ( :cry: ) a little bit premature
with my post......
I was playing Congo (a map that i play often since gamerelease) when i
triggered a war by (i guess) building some emplacements around Angola.
But to be honest ... i had at that moment already a high CB (apx 60%)
Again i've some experience with that map and thought they start a war at 75%...
But it seems i'm wrong.
I've started a testgame with almost the same conditions.Angola and Cameroon have the same diplo stance against me.
I retrieve all my troops from the Angolian border and replaced them
around Cameroon.I also build alot mill facilities around that border
and watch......
And... there is NO significant diplo development (the first year) from Angola and Cameroon against me.... :-?

So ... sorry guy's.. if i have maybe mislead you... :oops:

I continu the test... to see if there is maybe somesort of breakingpoint.
But i doubt it because the engine use some very extreme formulas..
Il Duce has already mentioned "Schroedingers Tank" .... i would like to mention "Schroedingers Goat"... :lol:

To be continued ........
NO MORE NOISY FISH [unless they are green & furiously]
I HAVE STILL A FISH IN MY EAR

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#10 Post by Il Duce » Jul 08 2006

In retrospect I'd have to say that there does not seem to be any hard and fast rule about provocation by vicinity. In some cases a few units near a border can be extremely sensitive, and in others it just don't matter. In Africa, this sort of thing doesn't seem important. In Russia, it definitely matters. Hard to say if unit-type would make a difference. It makes sense to me that tanks on a border in a regions of steppe geography would be intimidating, but tanks (or leg-units?) on a jungle border seems almost meaningless, even more so if there's a river. Visibility would make a difference - on a jungle border I'd be anxious if I saw new airstrips with Airborne and cargo planes about 200Km on the other side. Maybe the AI knows about this?

Overall, my point to S-the-G was that play-style can greatly affect how belli develops....
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously [but otherwise, they do not worry and are happy].

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#11 Post by BigStone » Jul 08 2006

Il Duce wrote:Overall, my point to S-the-G was that play-style can greatly affect how belli develops....
Nope... it doesn't i'm afraid....
Because the Goats have tied the diplo to much to the difflevel...
:evil:
NO MORE NOISY FISH [unless they are green & furiously]
I HAVE STILL A FISH IN MY EAR

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#12 Post by Samuel the Great » Jul 08 2006

Il Duce wrote:In retrospect I'd have to say that there does not seem to be any hard and fast rule about provocation by vicinity. In some cases a few units near a border can be extremely sensitive, and in others it just don't matter. In Africa, this sort of thing doesn't seem important. In Russia, it definitely matters. Hard to say if unit-type would make a difference. It makes sense to me that tanks on a border in a regions of steppe geography would be intimidating, but tanks (or leg-units?) on a jungle border seems almost meaningless, even more so if there's a river. Visibility would make a difference - on a jungle border I'd be anxious if I saw new airstrips with Airborne and cargo planes about 200Km on the other side. Maybe the AI knows about this?

Overall, my point to S-the-G was that play-style can greatly affect how belli develops....
Try building emplacements with Garrison units in them along a border. Always works for me.

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#13 Post by Phoenix_ryan » Jul 09 2006

ageed the garrison/emplacement combo is a red flag to a bull so to speak. What I am curious about is how do I increase my Belli against another region so that I may start a legitamate war. I am thinking specifically of the US south west scenario where although the briefing indicates war is more or less inevitable if I leave the scenario to run and do nothing inflamatory no other region wants to begin hostilities with anyone leading to a dull scenario. Should I start a war of course i instantly get 6 enemies.

Any thoughts?

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#14 Post by Il Duce » Jul 09 2006

I have a case in point (update 5 - africa) where emplacements spaced three hexes apart with a radar site in every third slot all populated with at least an AA or an AT had NO effect whatsoever on belli. Also had some very low-stealth helos patrolling along this border - couldn't get anymore provocative without an actual incursion. Also bumped up my defcon level to see if my own belli would increment. Nope. There are no rules.

The point being that under some cases you will have set diplo precedents or have other factors which prevent belli generation - such as you have extrememely superior tech and parity enlistment - it would appear that in update 5 at least the AI recognizes when it is being enticed into a battle that it probably (from the grossest comparison of stats) can't win, and won't let itself be suckered.

Again, As bigstone was alluding to - difflevel AND buildcap still seem to be the overall factors, but play-style is, I still believe, a serious modifier. I have had a few situations where I have replayed with various strategies (over say a two-three year term) and still gotten widely different results.
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#15 Post by Lightbringer » Jul 09 2006

As my avatar might indicate...that map is well known to me. Dallas or Houston are disliked rather strongly, so belligerent behavior by either of those two usually works to get declared on. Even if you set it up to declare war with justification, the problem is that everyone hates you so much, you get six enemies regardless of wether you are justified or not. The only difference you get is WM reaction. I've had good luck with SW Texas. New Mexico is too weak to seriously threaten you, and you can concentrate on Central Texas before having to deal with Dallas or Houston. Arizona is in very good position to start a war and not be overwhelmed as well. Personally I play Dallas and build troops like crazy from day one....expecting to have to fight everyone all at once.
If you want to have a justified belli level to attack try Okla...Dallas might piss you off quickly enough(lord knows I've been on the Dallas end enough to know, central tex gets high belli quickly but is in a crappy strategic position). Just don't increase your buildcap over theirs.
Hope some of that made sense. :D
(basically let Dallas or Houston piss you off)
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