Economic Output

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SGTscuba
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Posts: 1870
Joined: Dec 08 2007
Location: Tipton, UK

Economic Output

#1 Post by SGTscuba » Mar 07 2019

I've been posting on discord with a few other people about the in game economy and some other things about it. I'd like to bring the discussion over here so it isn't lost as I feel some of the economy changes over the last year or so have been detrimental, mostly around the change in how production and pricing is worked out.

I've copied the discussion from discord here:

sgtscubaLast Tuesday at 19:37
they do if you tech up, but overall the economy is much harder then before. I suppose it was because i could create shortages and drag prices up, but this tactic is much less relevant now as it seems the lack of supply doesn't push prices mega up which should be the case (within limits though)
obviously increasing global prices would increase gdp and tax take, helping you economy
I think it also doesn't help that production capability is less meaningful as its tied to demand from what i understand, rather than capacity per production facility, supply of facility and any tech/ infrastructure/domestic approval benefits
In my '36 game, even though i have 1000's of oil platforms, i'm only producing 43mil barrels of oil a day, which is around my demand. Building more platforms doesn't seem to help in the long run as it drops back down to roughly demand after a while, even though demand hasn't really risen. It makes it hard to stockpile ready for a war.
I'd reckon I've probably built around 80-90 mil capacity if I used the old system
I get 46 mil at the moment
Although maybe there is something in the formula i'm missing

KallipolisLast Tuesday at 20:07
imo the econ game in 14 is kind of broken. XD
Some countries are just beasts that can get way ahead in tech.
Murica
Japan actually use to be crazier but it seems like something changed in the last update.

sgtscubaLast Tuesday at 21:56
@battlefella care to comment on this?
or are we just being noobs?

whismerhillYesterday at 14:02
theorically & AFAIK what happens if you build more oil, is you reduce the total oil production per platform WORLDWIDE
so you should be producing more & more of the world's total capacity

whismerhillYesterday at 14:09
and yeah prices are not influenced anymore by the state of the market at all as far as I can see
instead prices seem somehow indexed on player's production costs and they go down as your economy crashes or go up as your economy(GDP) booms (with a delay in both directions, and it's not 1-1 either)

sgtscubaYesterday at 19:45
@whismerhill Yeah i had heard it described as that. Didn't someone annex the world and then meet global demand from a single hex?
Its probably why I prefered the old system, as at least I could understand it

sgtscubaYesterday at 20:04
I'm still unsure as to why it changed though. It seemed to work pretty well over the years

whismerhillYesterday at 20:55
it was probably too easy to abuse the market to make insane amounts of money & ruin AI economies in the process
but yeah it sucks a bit cause it means in case there's a shortage of goods, if your country is otherwise rich it's not easy to try & grab the market by buying at max price
(the "solution" to this is to increase the amount you want to maximum, that way you'll be prioritized in global market goods distribution)
and sometimes you sell your military goods @10% profit, despite nobody being able to produce the amounts you do, and other countries needing thousands of military goods per day, price & margin will NOT increase :neutral_face:
the main issue for me is that you can't sell above market price, no AI will buy above it, which is stupid if they are rich & need the goods but whatever

whismerhillYesterday at 21:15
things are simplified for real time AI calculations shrugs

sgtscubaYesterday at 21:45
yup

hopefully we will get the old system back somehow

sgtscubaYesterday at 22:09
it also leads to major oil shortages late in game, no matter how much you build
@Balthagor

whismerhillYesterday at 22:22
it's weird though, if the whole word needs oil, the formulae should boost per facility oil production
or maybe it's just a feature

MikeToday at 02:26
I've found other ways to abuse the economy :smiley:
I do miss being able to over produce to stock pile.

You can drive up coast however by massive over building.
cost*

whismerhillToday at 03:12
yeah I like to admire the sea while driving too :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
is that on a 14' start ? because that looks like a 20' start tbh
My SR:U Model Project, get the latest and post suggestions here:

http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=28040

Jorias
Corporal
Posts: 3
Joined: Mar 20 2011
Human: Yes

Re: Economic Output

#2 Post by Jorias » Nov 08 2019

I just bought SRU not too long ago, and i mean despite most of the bells and whistles being present, i had to totally rethink how my economy runs. I'ts sort of lame now, and kinda boring, nothing i do in game can help me corner a market, or otherwise let me play the way i want to play in a living breathing economy.

IDK what the TOS is about mentioning other games so i wont say the name of it, but another similar game i play to this one which i mean is sort of a little more complicated, but has the general idea, Supply and demand is more prevalent, if a country simply is sitting on top of large reserves of something the world needs, it can and will corner the market on it.

That's why i guess i am on my 10th or so Youtube episode on this game, and 6th playthrough of 1936 Brazil. It's frustrating i don't even want to go to war with anyone (yet) i just want the economy and my industrial base to grow, which it hasn't grown by much, and in this current playthrough im at 1941.

Iv'e read the posts on GDP/c, Inflation, and Unemployment, i understand the "hidden" costs of most of the sliders, but still when jerk around and eff with the sliders, i end up just basically back to where i started, I mean i would think that during times of really low inflation (for me is like 1 percent) if i raised the QOL of my citizens by reducing deaths, and making their life more comfortable, raising immigration numbers.....you would think my unemployment would go up, or something. Seems pointless now that i even helped at all because for 1, Brazil in '36 was a Dictatorship (rather benevolent one, but one nonetheless), and 2 DAR means nothing therefore raising it seemed pointless. It's sort of lame, mainly because is basically telling the player "hey, play this way, not that way"

Which brings me back to that other game i play, Given you can't start at 1936, but who cares, i can do ANYTHING i want in the game to the country i am in charge of running. The only drawback to the game is it's glitchy af, and the combat is kinda meh. I love BG/Paradox games i own them all (Paradox not BGS), i really want this game to work, but i mean unless you're a warmongering Psychopath hellbent on world domination, this game really isn't for you. At least that's my perspective.

BillyBanzai
Sergeant
Posts: 11
Joined: Oct 09 2018
Human: Yes

Re: Economic Output

#3 Post by BillyBanzai » Nov 08 2019

I prefer the old system as well. It seemed to work better and it's more realistic than having output based on global demand.

Rosalis
Sergeant
Posts: 24
Joined: Sep 07 2019
Human: Yes

Re: Economic Output

#4 Post by Rosalis » Nov 08 2019

The "old system" never worked in SRU cause of AI building. People seem to forget SRU always had economy issues. I remember the start when 2020 scenarios were unplayable with all resources dropping below production price, with the AI still building to fulfill their domestic demands. Ofcourse rubber was there to give the final blow when regions couldnt buy that.
BG just seem to have alot of problem when it comes to balancing the game. The 2 newest mods both increased building cost so you have less building from AI. That's how you could do it.
Like i said before i like starting option; "AI building". Seeing how the community keep adressing the issue of economy, i dont think that's too much to ask as a minimum fix. You are supreme ruler, and 1 big part of that was influencing the economy the way you want, not be limited by unrealistic economy. Not sure if everything will be fixed, but im sure you will get a better response as user.

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