Suggestion: Giving AI nations the options to Liberate and colonize.

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JollyGoodBork
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Suggestion: Giving AI nations the options to Liberate and colonize.

Post by JollyGoodBork »

The thread has been created. We already have a good rule on whether the AI nation should colonize or annex the counquered region: Annex if bordering, colonize if overseas. Does this sound like a complete concept? Because if so; we move on to discussing when the regions should 'liberate' each other.
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Zuikaku
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Re: Suggestion: Giving AI nations the options to Liberate and colonize.

Post by Zuikaku »

Liberate vs. colonize/annex

Democracy: 70:30
Dictatorship: 30:70
Monarchy: 40:60
Communism: 50:50
Theocracy: 20:80
Please teach AI everything!
nick-bang
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Re: Suggestion: Giving AI nations the options to Liberate and colonize.

Post by nick-bang »

Sounds good ... But maybe a third option.

That they will declare independence

E.g. Like Iceland did from Denmark during WW2.

Just need to find a trigger.
JollyGoodBork
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Re: Suggestion: Giving AI nations the options to Liberate and colonize.

Post by JollyGoodBork »

Regarding the first reply.

Should perhaps these parameters change based on your current settings? If AI is set to "aggressive" or "unoredictable" I think it should annex and colonize more often.
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Balthagor
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Re: Suggestion: Giving AI nations the options to Liberate and colonize.

Post by Balthagor »

nick-bang wrote:...E.g. Like Iceland did from Denmark during WW2.

Just need to find a trigger.
For specific cases like these, the scripted events system can cover precise cases, including "what if" statements.

- Condition X check, did the UK lose ownership of UK
- Event, if X, Colony A becomes independent

But then you have to do the second event for every colony you want to have act this way and it might work best on time windows so you get repeating sets of events.

I could spend a month alone scripting "what if" events just for 1914...
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amynase
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Re: Suggestion: Giving AI nations the options to Liberate and colonize.

Post by amynase »

If I may add my own suggestion as to how this could work: I think the AI should annex any countries that have loyal hexes bordering its own loyal hexes, for all other countries, Dictatorships and Communist Countries should colonize, while Democracies should liberate. That way, in the 2020 scenario countries would annex the maximum of:

Brazil
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China
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France
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Germany
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India
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Iran
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Israel
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Italy
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Russia
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Saudi Arabia
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South Africa
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Turkey
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USA
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Not saying these are perfect borders, but I think they are pretty nice for being based on a general rule. Just my thoughts :)
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Balthagor
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Re: Suggestion: Giving AI nations the options to Liberate and colonize.

Post by Balthagor »

amynase wrote:...any countries that have loyal hexes bordering its own loyal hexes...
This sort of idea has been proposed before and is one of my preferred methods but calculating this condition would grind the game to a halt. It has to check millions of hexes and has to recheck it every few time slices since it can change in an instant. This is not a feasible solution.
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amynase
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Re: Suggestion: Giving AI nations the options to Liberate and colonize.

Post by amynase »

Balthagor wrote: This sort of idea has been proposed before and is one of my preferred methods but calculating this condition would grind the game to a halt. It has to check millions of hexes and has to recheck it every few time slices since it can change in an instant. This is not a feasible solution.
Is it possible to just give each AI country a list of countries it wants to annex then? Theres ~200 regions with ~5 neighbors on average so that should be a feasible?
Kristijonas
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Re: Suggestion: Giving AI nations the options to Liberate and colonize.

Post by Kristijonas »

I wouldn't like this change. It would be just an artificial boundary. There are countries that would gladly take over the world like USA and there are countries that don't want any additional lands. Then there are countries that only want very specific lands and NOT entire countries. For example Poland might want Vilnius/Wilno from Lithuania but they would NOT like to take entire Lithuania.

So I think it's better to have no restrictions (like now) than to add those artificial ones. Some countries will want more than their neighbors and others will want LESS.

I've stated on numerous occasions that the only way to do it right is to allow MULTIPLE loyalties per HEX. That way it would be possible for countries to have war priorities for only certain regions. For example Poland would destroy all Lithuania, but then release it, only keeping Vilnius/Wilno for themselves. Sadly developers said adding multiple loyalties per hex is impossible. It would solve so many problems though...
amynase
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Re: Suggestion: Giving AI nations the options to Liberate and colonize.

Post by amynase »

Kristijonas wrote:I wouldn't like this change. It would be just an artificial boundary. There are countries that would gladly take over the world like USA and there are countries that don't want any additional lands. Then there are countries that only want very specific lands and NOT entire countries. For example Poland might want Vilnius/Wilno from Lithuania but they would NOT like to take entire Lithuania.

So I think it's better to have no restrictions (like now) than to add those artificial ones. Some countries will want more than their neighbors and others will want LESS.

I've stated on numerous occasions that the only way to do it right is to allow MULTIPLE loyalties per HEX. That way it would be possible for countries to have war priorities for only certain regions. For example Poland would destroy all Lithuania, but then release it, only keeping Vilnius/Wilno for themselves. Sadly developers said adding multiple loyalties per hex is impossible. It would solve so many problems though...
I fully agree on the multiple loyalty part. I cannot really imagine a Great War Game where Alscae - Lorraine or Elsass- Lothringen is only loyal to France or Germany, same for the Habsburgs. Will they have loyalty of all of Austria - Hungary or only Austria Proper? That said, I still think that only conquering neigbors is preferable to just conquering everything if we cant have multiple loyalties.
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Zuikaku
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Re: Suggestion: Giving AI nations the options to Liberate and colonize.

Post by Zuikaku »

Just randomize the damn thing and use some modifiers depending on government type!

This will eliminate mega-agressive blob regions that consume everyone arround them!
Please teach AI everything!
amynase
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Re: Suggestion: Giving AI nations the options to Liberate and colonize.

Post by amynase »

Zuikaku wrote:Just randomize the damn thing and use some modifiers depending on government type!

This will eliminate mega-agressive blob regions that consume everyone arround them!

But imagine the border gore if an AI nation just randomly picks whom to annex, liberate, colonize. This would be the worst option imo, randomness wont create nice borders, id rather just leave it as is than randomize it.
way2co0l
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Re: Suggestion: Giving AI nations the options to Liberate and colonize.

Post by way2co0l »

Just to weigh in here. I personally like some of what has been suggested here. I recognize that some of it is wishlist stuff such as multiple loyalties per hex and that it's just not something that I can reasonably expect, but the idea for government type to have an effect as well as countries bordering loyalty areas, I'm all on board for exploring those. For the WW1 example, the democracies defeating the central powers set about dismantling those territories, essentially liberating them. This should be their main goal regardless. Dictatorships and monarchies would probably want to keep any loyal territory they take from that country, and simply colonize the defeated nation otherwise. I'd say communist countries would probably try to annex any neighbor that directly borders one of their loyal hexes, maybe even anything on the same continent, and colonize everything else.

I understand the hex border thing is an issue, but what if you simply restrict it to a trigger on war start? The moment the war is declared, if the government type involved is one that allows it, then scan border hexes and if any of them connect to a hex of that nation's loyalty, then it sets a trigger for what their desired peace outcome would be. This would only require the single check and thus minimize the strain on the engine.

I understand it's not a perfect solution, and as has been pointed out, there are other factors that go into real world considerations, but I do believe it's the best imperfect option that adds it to the game in a predictable and plan-able way. If players want to mod scenarios, that trigger should be something they should be able to add to the conditions, so if they want America to colonize something rather than liberate it the way a democracy normally would, they could simply add the flag into the event so that it will be an option. This way you can set the conditions for the start of WW1 where the monarchies of the allies act like democracies and only try to liberate rather than colonize the defeated powers.

Just my thoughts on it.
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