sugg: Limiting unit production!

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Zuikaku
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sugg: Limiting unit production!

Post by Zuikaku »

In longer games huge number of units results in great strain for CPU. Also AI is dpleting it's resources in insane unit buildup. As the result, game gets slow to the sometimes unplayable levels.
I suggest unit building to be limited in the following way:

Max unit numbers per region is capped by AI stance, population, and GDP. When CAP is reached ,no additional units are built
- during the peacetime (much) more units are in reserve
- when region is at war, unit cap limit is off. When the war ends, excess units are placed to reserve and offered to allies, friends or neutrals before being scrapped.
- when new units are researched, outdated ones (red dot quality weighting by AI) are all withdrawn to reserve are sold to allies, friends and neutrals. Those not being sold are scrapped.
- this will improve game performance and prevent map from overfilling with units, especially in long term games :wink:

Max unit production facilities are also capped by by AI stance, population and GDP.

I have reasons to believe this feature is crucial for improving quality of long term games!
Please teach AI everything!
amynase
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Re: sugg: Limiting unit production!

Post by amynase »

+1 Absolutely agree :D
If we can start in 1914 it would be so great to really be able to play all the way into the modern age without insane slowdown due to too many units. Please implement this :)
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Re: sugg: Limiting unit production!

Post by nick-bang »

In genral I agree with this.

HOWEVER specifically for WW1, then countries was literally drained of men being used up in offensives where casualties ran in hundreds of thousands on both sides.
Hence large armies are really the essence of WW1....
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Zuikaku
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Re: sugg: Limiting unit production!

Post by Zuikaku »

nick-bang wrote:In genral I agree with this.

HOWEVER specifically for WW1, then countries was literally drained of men being used up in offensives where casualties ran in hundreds of thousands on both sides.
Hence large armies are really the essence of WW1....
- when region is at war, unit cap limit is off. When the war ends, excess units are placed to reserve and offered to allies, friends or neutrals before being scrapped.

SRGW starts in mid 1914 anyway....
Please teach AI everything!
nick-bang
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Re: sugg: Limiting unit production!

Post by nick-bang »

Zuikaku wrote:
nick-bang wrote:In genral I agree with this.

HOWEVER specifically for WW1, then countries was literally drained of men being used up in offensives where casualties ran in hundreds of thousands on both sides.
Hence large armies are really the essence of WW1....
- when region is at war, unit cap limit is off. When the war ends, excess units are placed to reserve and offered to allies, friends or neutrals before being scrapped.

SRGW starts in mid 1914 anyway....
THAT ....

Actually makes perfect sense
SGTscuba
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Re: sugg: Limiting unit production!

Post by SGTscuba »

nick-bang wrote:
Zuikaku wrote:
nick-bang wrote:In genral I agree with this.

HOWEVER specifically for WW1, then countries was literally drained of men being used up in offensives where casualties ran in hundreds of thousands on both sides.
Hence large armies are really the essence of WW1....
- when region is at war, unit cap limit is off. When the war ends, excess units are placed to reserve and offered to allies, friends or neutrals before being scrapped.

SRGW starts in mid 1914 anyway....
THAT ....

Actually makes perfect sense
indeed
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Zuikaku
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Re: sugg: Limiting unit production!

Post by Zuikaku »

Devs??
Please teach AI everything!
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Balthagor
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Re: sugg: Limiting unit production!

Post by Balthagor »

This suggestion makes reference to limits on building units, but there is no suggestion on what the baseline is. What value does the AI look at to determine if their current count of units is less than, equal to or greater that "enough units".

In truth, unit production is already limited - by raw material resources, money and available fabrication slots. These are measurable as goods, money and a fixed count. What other stat should we look at for placing limits?
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Zuikaku
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Re: sugg: Limiting unit production!

Post by Zuikaku »

Balthagor wrote:This suggestion makes reference to limits on building units, but there is no suggestion on what the baseline is. What value does the AI look at to determine if their current count of units is less than, equal to or greater that "enough units".
The number of units available. Ground, naval and air units are monitored separately.

Balthagor wrote: In truth, unit production is already limited - by raw material resources, money and available fabrication slots. These are measurable as goods, money and a fixed count. What other stat should we look at for placing limits?
That seems not to be working well. In long term games most of the regions are packed with units, map is just covered with endless stacks of units.
Add GDP, population and govt. type into the count.
Please teach AI everything!
amynase
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Re: sugg: Limiting unit production!

Post by amynase »

Balthagor wrote:This suggestion makes reference to limits on building units, but there is no suggestion on what the baseline is. What value does the AI look at to determine if their current count of units is less than, equal to or greater that "enough units".

In truth, unit production is already limited - by raw material resources, money and available fabrication slots. These are measurable as goods, money and a fixed count. What other stat should we look at for placing limits?
In regards to the limits my personal suggestion is as follows:

Give us the option before we start the game to decide how many total units are allowed ingame. One option should be "infinite" to have the same experience we had so far for people with really good PCs.
Other options should include something like 5000 total units ingame for people with low end PCs, 10000 for mid tier PCs, 20000 for stronger PCs and 40000 for people with really beefy machines.

[ ] No unit limit
[ ] 40000 units
[ ] 20000 units
[x] 10000 units
[ ] 5000 units

Ingame, these numbers should be divided between all independent nations according to their GDP. So if Germany has 5% of the worlds GDP and the limit is 10000, germany can build up to 500 units. The AI should use about 60% of its unit cap for land units, and 20% for naval and air units each (or all for land units if it has no access to the sea or technology for air units)
Also, each nation should be able to build a base amount of units, like 10 or 20 maybe, so small poor countries can still have an army.

To add to this, based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... _GDP_(PPP) , in 1913,
- USA had ~19% of World GDP, or 1900 units at 10000 setting
- China, Germany, Britain and Russia each about 8%, or 800 units at 10000 setting
- India 7 % (Is a colony though so no units for them)
- France and Austria Hungary ~ 5 % or 500 units at 10000 setting
- Italy and Japan about 3 % or 300 units at 10000 setting

I think this distribution is not too bad, and roughly reflects the capacity of these countries to field armies at the time. Implementing the limit like this would be great, because it gives the player a choice if he prefers larger unit numbers or a faster game experience, and it follows pretty clear and easy to understand rules. What do you guys think?
Last edited by amynase on Mar 21 2017, edited 1 time in total.
YoMomma
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Re: sugg: Limiting unit production!

Post by YoMomma »

And what about Germany annexing whole europe? Still left with 500 units? Manpower should be in the count lol.
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amynase
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Re: sugg: Limiting unit production!

Post by amynase »

YoMomma wrote:And what about Germany annexing whole europe? Still left with 500 units? Manpower should be in the count lol.
If they annex all of europe, they certainly got more than 5 % of the worlds GDP ;)
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Re: sugg: Limiting unit production!

Post by YoMomma »

Uhm probably much less. Since AI doesnt know how to build energy and rubber. Also huge oil shortage. Basicly broken economy.
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amynase
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Re: sugg: Limiting unit production!

Post by amynase »

YoMomma wrote:Uhm probably much less. Since AI doesnt know how to build energy and rubber. Also huge oil shortage. Basicly broken economy.
We dont know how well the economy will be balanced ingame, yet.
However, if this causes problems, I can think of a couple of possible solutions:
- Add a better, more competetive construction AI that can keep up
- Teach the AI to colonize, so it doesnt have to support poorer regions and can exploit them for a boost of its own GDP instead.

Also, please consider that I want this whole limit to be optional as described above, so you can still just play with no limit if you prefer to.

Of course we could also say that 50% of the unit limit is based on the countries share of GDP and 50% on its share of population or something of the sorts, but I fear that would make China very OP since they have so many people. As stated above, in my opinion the distribution of unit limit according to GDP comes fairly close to historical capacities.
YoMomma
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Re: sugg: Limiting unit production!

Post by YoMomma »

Oh wait this is about SRGW, i dont care about that game. Sorry ignore my posts.

Dont know why so hard tho. Units calculated by manpower, how hard do you want to make it. Also dont worry about speed in SRGW, since there are basicly no planes, lots of foot infantry taking less resources calculating the speed.

If you buy those marketing tricks like start in 1914 play far into the future, dont know if you played a SR game since SRCW, but you should be happy if world economy runs 5 years.
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