Preparing for the US Collapse

Post by **Balthagor** » Oct 30 2007

Start living on less today, it will help when the time comes

http://www.energybulletin.net/23259.html

One of my research contacts sent me this link, was a fun read.

red · Post by **red** » Oct 30 2007

This guy is a crank not much different from the people who watch tapes of the WTC being hit and convince themselves that it proves there was a vast government conspiracy. He was in the USSR when it collapsed? Wow! He must really know his economics!

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Oct 30 2007

I only scimmed it so far,I will read it thoroughly when i stop laughing.

Am i the only one who remembers when the gloom and doom prophets of disaster were relegated to walking the streets with hand made signs ?

Why is it now, i keep seeing them popping up in the mianstream ?

Sure,they are better dressed now.They no longer look like the poor (not meant in a rich or poor in wealth manner, but in the eliciting of compassion manner) homeless people who havent had the chance to wash themselves or their clothes in weeks.
Now they wear suits and type on the internet, or host tv shows, or make absurd "documentaries", or work for "think tanks".

Is their form of insanity growing, or has it just been made more visable due to technological advances (tv,internet,color movies

)?

Are they getting more "air time" becuase much like the "newspapers" that told of Elvis's alien baby,people somehow find them entertaining ?

Or is it simply that, as populations grow,certain things like % of people who are insane in said population remain a relative constant ?And hence there are now enough nut cases out there to appear to be mainstream numberwise ?

Post by **Balthagor** » Oct 30 2007

I'm not sure if he's a crack pot or not, he is saying that his "prediction" could be anything from 5 months to 5 centuries so he certainly leaves himself plenty of leeway. What I found more interesting was his analysis of what happens during a collapse and what could occur during a collapse of the US.

I have to say, living on the outside looking in, I do sometimes wonder how long the US can sustain it's current lifestlye/practices. And I don't mean that I hope it collapses, I don't! We are neighbours after all and what affects you guys invariably affects us as well. It's more a fear of standing too close to the fan if ever the _it should hit it...

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Oct 30 2007

Balthagor wrote: I have to say, living on the outside looking in, I do sometimes wonder how long the US can sustain it's current lifestlye/practices. .

What ? You mean like the huge amounts of cash we toss around in foreign aid/intervention/etc..(ive read its over 29 billion this year for official aid alone) ?
I can go for reducing or even eliminating that

I wouldnt be suprised if we could knock down a large chunk of that circa 9 trillion debt in just a decade or 2 ,by stopping foreign aid and other "outside" spending

And could you imagine how much extra cash would come in if Korea,African Nations and other regions actually had to pay for all tha "free" food they get sent ?
China just got weened off alot of their food aid,perhaps its time for a"tough love" approach in regard to other nations.

Also,I read somewhere that circa 70% of the US foreign aid recipiant nations voted against the US in the UN circa 65% of the time

.
Which kind of kills the whole "the US buys votes" concept

So ,we could cut back or eliminate the UN costs we pay also

Feltan · Post by **Feltan** » Oct 30 2007

Oh, I don't think he is a crank entirely. There are grains of truth there, but the whole thing simply doesn't hold together.

Thirty years ago, in highschool, the good Jesuit Fathers pounded something into my skullfull of mush that rings true with this article: the correlation of facts does not imply causation. Even if everything he states was true, and I don't believe it is, I am left with a big "so what?" at the end of the day.

It is probably more what he leaves out that is damning to his argument. In a capitalistic society, we are always experiencing collapse. There is almost always one sector of the economy that is sucking pond water. Capitalistic societies have a vastly greater ability to absord loss and change than static communist economies. The lack of central planning is the single greatest benefit we have (at least until Hillary changes that).

On the other hand, most folks don't realize how fragile our economy is -- the quarterly focus and just-in-time inventories do, in fact, leave us all somewhat vulnerable. The 9/11 attack is a case in point. In a country of over 300 million people, the loss (dramatic and cruel as it was) of 3000 should not cause economic disruption -- but it did. The soccer mom staying home with the kids one day a week instead of going to practice, and Joe six-pack paring back by one six-pack a week has measurable economic results. We run at great speed along a very fine line.

Imagine the economic impact of NYC, Chicago or LA or SF or Las Vegas getting nuked.

I don't think even in that grim of a situation things would totally collapse as the author suggests. However, it would change things to a greater extent than most people are willing to admit.

Regards,
Feltan

Lightbringer · Post by **Lightbringer** » Oct 30 2007

That thesis sounds like it was written by someone from CNN or (p)MSNBC while they were drunk, or perhaps high on crack. In fact, (if this is indeed a Russian immigrant... Papers Comrade?) he sounded like a massive overdose blend of any good month of mainstream media coverage. Just enough facts to make it sound reasonable, but twisted to say what he wants them to say. I wonder if perhaps, having grown up with Soviet State propaganda, he has moved to the States only to be taken in by a much slicker, more insidious brand of lies? He does admit in several places that the U.S. does things less bluntly than the USSR. If he is not under the spell of the left wing American media, then he has done a very creditable job of mimicking their style (even if he has not learned to tone down the volume below 11).

No, I don't think our economy is some unbreakable, unshakable, bedrock solid monolith. We have become fat and happy, and to be blunt my own self, we are a bunch of pampered, spoiled brats compared to 100...even 50 years ago. Like the fast food addicts he enjoyed belittling so much, we could use to trim a lot of fat from our society. We have lived through a few other economic "crash diets" before. Neither the 1930s nor the 1970s reduced us to roving bands of gun toting cannibalistic savages, and I seriously doubt things would go that far today.

Let me ask a few questions. What do you think the result would be to the World economy (nothing? business as usual? yeah right...)? If we lapse into barbaric feudal tribes wandering around on foot shooting each other to steal food (or eat each other), whom exactly is going to file foreclosure on my delinquent mortgage (widespread foreclosures and homelessness predicted)? Does everyone on the left really not know that we have larger oil deposits untapped than most OPEC nations have total? Is being forced to redevelop our manufacturing capability because no one will extend us any more credit a bad thing? Should the United States default all of it's overseas debt at the same time it declares debt amnesty for all ordinary citizens at home? ... His "solutions" are almost all based on the U.S. disarming itself and disabling our nuclear power, which would leave us even weaker while we tried to overcome economic disaster. (shakes his head)

Maybe Russians were more resilient during a complete and total melt down of their economy than prime-time TV Americans would be. As the Author suggests, not a whole hell of a lot changed in the day to day lives of most Russians. I would like to think that even on the coasts of the States, that when most people realized the teat of the nanny state had run dry, they would tighten their belts, roll up their sleeves, and fix what needed fixing, like we have every time before. If he thinks the aftermath of Democratic incompetence and Katrina in New Orleans is a good example of how we would react, then he is indeed high on the mainstream media's crack.

-Light

Oh... Like the Russians, I don't have all that far to fall into the poverty I only recently crawled out of...so I already know how to survive it. Anyone here is welcome to PM me for tips and tricks if they wish.

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Oct 30 2007

Perhaps the writer should learn a little something about US economic history.
Weve had more economic meltdowns than i can remember.A fast search turned up these.

1797 , 1819 , 1825 ,1837, 1847 ,1857 ,1866 ,1873 ,1884 ,1890 ,1893, 1896 ,1901 ,1907 , 1910, 1929,1937,1958, 1989, 1997.

Some of course larger than others,but all large scale financial disasters.
And if he thinks people are spoiled now,he should read up on the wealthy of the US during its robber baron period.
I forget his name ,maybe Morgan,but there was a time in the US when this single person saved the U.S. economy almost all by himself.

He should also be made aware of simple the fact that there are circa 37 million people(not counting the illegals) in the US who are already below the poverty line.
Thats more than 1 in 10 americans are already living as if the nation was experiencing an econimc disaster.

And yet depite all of this, and thru all of this, the nation has not only survived ,but come out stronger in the end.

Lastly, in all of americas history, there was only one president who eliminated the nations debt.i think it was Andrew Jackson in like the 1830s.

So for over 200 years,the nation has existed and survived despite debt that has been on ocassion down right crippling.

So despite what to me sounds a bit like "wishful thinking" on his part, i doubt the writers vision of U.S. economic doom will come true.I'd bet more money on a "gobal warming" vision of doom than his

Legend · Post by **Legend** » Oct 31 2007

I wonder if the US current lifestyle of JIT shipping and other things mentioned would leave that country less prepared for the next one...

And, I wonder why the US with such a history of trouble keeps on doing what they do... you know how some just rebuild in earthquake zones.

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Oct 31 2007

Well, maybe because the country was built on virtually uncontrolled capitalism and most of the economic emergencies are caused by people taking part in just that.

I think its simply a case of one of our best strengths also being one of our biggest weaknesses.

Plus, what many people dont seem to understand is that its the people who are the country in the US.
Its not just a slogan here,its really true.

We have sooooo much freedom,that people will not wilingly give up, that we are free to make our own collossal mistakes time and time again.

Look at the latest economic disaster, the mortgage collapse.Its a prime (no pun intended) example.

zhshs7 · Post by **zhshs7** » Nov 01 2007

I think the man is right in that SU could handle a collapse better than US

Problem is i don't see many possible ways of US to collapse..

I mean it may experience problems but not such a collapse like the SU

Lightbringer · Post by **Lightbringer** » Nov 01 2007

zhshs7 wrote:I think the man is right in that SU could handle a collapse better than US

Problem is i don't see many possible ways of US to collapse..

I mean it may experience problems but not such a collapse like the SU

Wow... three lines to respond perfectly. Nice post.

Seydlitz · Post by **Seydlitz** » Nov 04 2007

I don't see the US ever "collapsing" (though his term in this case is a bit vague anyway) but rather slowly corroding until it is no longer recognizable as "the United States" is today. There are already a number of signs of decay (such as the massive federal debt, the weak dollar, etc) but none of them are going to cause some sort of economic cataclysm.

He makes some solid points, such as the inability of anyone in the mainstream to actually discuss real problems: Our Congress seems to be more interested now in discussing things like steroid use in baseball and name-calling over the war in Iraq than dealing with the real issues. But this isn't going to cause a collapse, it's just going to make the system more corrupt ultimately because the people's main "voice" is going to make itself irrelevant. And plenty of governments have survived no matter how corrupt they are.

And the economy has shown itself to be quite resilient despite the skyrocketing price of oil ($95 a barrel!), which many of these prophets of economic doom argue is going to destroy the economy. Everyone adapts, and in the process the system becomes more stagnant and inert. The Roman Empire never collapsed, it just stopped innovating and was eroded away by a hundred little things. And I think the same sort of thing will happen with the United States. But it's a long way off.