anyone interested in a war/politic thread?

iamnick · Post by **iamnick** » Jul 03 2004

i like to debate politics and talk about the military or wars anyone interested in debating stuff?

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Jul 04 2004

Best way here to get a conversation on such a topic going is to simply pick one,and begin it.

Keep it as factual as possible,as biase free as possible and of course mannered.

They will come if you start it

This is one of the VERY few boards such a converstion/debate can be had on without it getting out of hand imho.

iamnick · Post by **iamnick** » Jul 04 2004

did anyone hear about the u.s. navy sending 7 aircraft carriers close to china?

Slash78 · Post by **Slash78** » Jul 04 2004

I didn't, and I doubt they would. There are only about 3 or 4 at sea at any given time. Any more then that and it screws up the rotation.

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Jul 04 2004

I didnt hear it either .

This site I "think" has some fairly current location info on the carriers

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/gonavy/atsugi/gonavy604.html

iamnick · Post by **iamnick** » Jul 06 2004

heres an article on it.

Story Number: NNS040603-02
Release Date: 6/3/2004 11:40:00 AM

Special release from the U.S. Department of Defense

WASHINGTON (NNS) -- The Department of Defense announced June 2 that this summer, simultaneous deployment of seven aircraft carrier strike groups (CSGs) will demonstrate the ability of the Navy to provide credible combat power across the globe by operating in five theaters with other U.S., allied and coalition military forces.

â€œSummer Pulse 04â€ will be the Navyâ€™s first exercise of its new operational construct, the Fleet Response Plan (FRP). FRP is about new ways of operating, training, manning, and maintaining the fleet that results in increased force readiness and the ability to provide significant combat power to the President in response to a national emergency or crisis.
Beginning this week and continuing through August, the Navy will exercise the full range of skills involved in simultaneously deploying and employing carrier strike groups around the world. Summer Pulse 04 will include
scheduled deployments, surge operations, joint and international exercises, and other advanced training and port visits.

Under the FRP construct, the Navy can provide six CSGs in less than 30 days to support contingency operations around the globe, and two more CSGs can be ready in three months to reinforce or rotate with initially responding forces, to continue presence operations in other parts of the world, or to support military action in another crisis. Summer Pulse 04 will exercise the logistics and shore infrastructure necessary to execute a large scale surge operation, stress the operational concepts in the Navyâ€™s Sea Power 21 strategy, and improve Navy interoperability with numerous allies and coalition partners, as well as other U.S. military forces.

The seven aircraft carriers involved in Summer Pulse 04 will include: the Norfolk-based USS George Washington (CVN 73) CSG and the San Diego-based USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74) CSG, both currently deployed, and Yokosuka, Japan-based USS Kitty Hawk (CV 63). The Mayport, Fla.-based USS John F Kennedy (CV 67) CSG will begin a combined and joint exercise early this month, followed by a scheduled overseas deployment. The Norfolk-based USS Harry S. Truman (CVN 75) CSG will conduct a scheduled training exercise followed by overseas pulse operations with the Norfolk-based USS Enterprise (CVN 65) CSG, beginning early this month. USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76) will conduct operations in the U.S. Northern Command and U.S. Southern Command theaters during the shipâ€™s interfleet transfer from Norfolk, Va., to its Pacific Fleet homeport of San Diego.

The near-simultaneous deployment of seven carrier strike groups provides the Navy and the joint combatant commanders an opportunity to exercise the FRP while maintaining the ability to respond to crises around the globe, enhance regional security and relationships, meet combatant commander requirements including forward presence, and demonstrate a commitment to allies and coalition partners. Summer Pulse 04 is scheduled to conclude in August.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Navy Times

http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display ... y_id=13621

Slash78 · Post by **Slash78** » Jul 06 2004

A pointless exercise that will do nothing but waste money and further wear down an already worn and overstretched military.

There is a reason they have regularly scheduled deployments. Then need time for training and perform regular routine maintanence. Operations like they show how little the highest level in the Pentagon know and how out of touch they are.

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Jul 06 2004

Thanks good read.
But either you or I are misunderstanding what "summer pulse 04 " is.

My understanding is that 7 carriers will be deployed at roughly the same times to 5 different theaters.
Not that all 7 will be next to china .But instead all 7 would deployed to different regions of the world at the roughly same time.Some as single carrier groups, some as combined carrier groups.

I disagree with you slash on the point of this.If i understand it correctly its part of power 21.
Which is employing a new system for rapid deployment and coordination.
If so, than the practice,training and exp on the new system will be very vaulable to the navy.

Slash78 · Post by **Slash78** » Jul 06 2004

Yes, the theory sounds good, however it increases the operation tempo, which kills morale and destroys equipment.

When it comes to deployments, the Navy has it the worst. They spend 6 out of every 18 months at sea. That doesn't include the 6 months it takes to get ships and crews ready for the deployment. (Apposed to Marine units that are deployed 6 out of every 24 months). And yes, it takes that long to insure all nuts and bolts are counted, all crew members training it up to date and all equipment is in the very highest state of readiness.

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Jul 06 2004

Yes thats true.But trying to learn that same new system during a war in which the situation is present would have a much higher cost.

They cant learn it unless they do it.If indeed this is gonna be the new "doctrine" in such situations for the navy, it has to be tested,fixed(if needed) and learned.

Post by **Balthagor** » Jul 06 2004

...just curious, has the Navy ever done much with simulators the way the airforce does?

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Jul 07 2004

As in sim farms that would enable practice for large scale sea battles ?
Not that im aware of.

But they do have flight simulators for the aircraft ,bridge simulators for commanders ,air defense simulators ,and emv simulators for practicing the various electro magnetic warfare componenets.
They are all as far as i know small scale.Nothing like the massive mulitple tank farm sims the army has.

All of the large scale combat training im aware of is either live exercises or board game like training courses/classes.

iamnick · Post by **iamnick** » Jul 11 2004

Bush/cheney 2004

prime_642 · Post by **prime_642** » Jul 12 2004

My god, you'll stir up a firestorm with that post.

iamnick · Post by **iamnick** » Jul 12 2004

maybe we can get a debate going then. lol