Ukraine..

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notus
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Re: Ukraine..

#106 Post by notus » Apr 18 2014

Hullu Hevonen wrote: -"send in more soviet military" - there's no soviet union anymore, using such terms are both incorrect/unproffesional and meant to scare cold war americans by associating Putin with the Soviet Union, Stalin et.al., which is incorrect.
-an US ambassador thinks "Putin is winning", why then agree to any deals with Ukraine and the West? (which Russia has btw done)
-Did the guy actually say "
Finlandize
"? that Putin is going to "Finlandize" Ukraine? This guy is an idiot that does not know what he's talking about. I wonder if he's at all educated or what the hell he did when he was an ambassador.

Just want to point that the term Finlandize, most likely exists, comes from Finlandization wich from the wikipedia:

"The term is generally considered to be pejorative, originating in West German political debate of the late 1960s and 1970s. As the term was used in Germany and other NATO countries, it referred to the decision of a country not to challenge a more powerful neighbor in foreign politics, while maintaining national sovereignty. It is commonly used in reference to Finland's policies in relation to the Soviet Union during the Cold War, but it can refer more generally to similar international relations, such as Denmark's attitude toward Germany between 1871 and 1940."

But i agree with everything else

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Re: Ukraine..

#107 Post by Hullu Hevonen » Apr 18 2014

notus wrote:
Hullu Hevonen wrote: -"send in more soviet military" - there's no soviet union anymore, using such terms are both incorrect/unproffesional and meant to scare cold war americans by associating Putin with the Soviet Union, Stalin et.al., which is incorrect.
-an US ambassador thinks "Putin is winning", why then agree to any deals with Ukraine and the West? (which Russia has btw done)
-Did the guy actually say "
Finlandize
"? that Putin is going to "Finlandize" Ukraine? This guy is an idiot that does not know what he's talking about. I wonder if he's at all educated or what the hell he did when he was an ambassador.

Just want to point that the term Finlandize, most likely exists, comes from Finlandization wich from the wikipedia:

"The term is generally considered to be pejorative, originating in West German political debate of the late 1960s and 1970s. As the term was used in Germany and other NATO countries, it referred to the decision of a country not to challenge a more powerful neighbor in foreign politics, while maintaining national sovereignty. It is commonly used in reference to Finland's policies in relation to the Soviet Union during the Cold War, but it can refer more generally to similar international relations, such as Denmark's attitude toward Germany between 1871 and 1940."

But i agree with everything else
I know what Finlandize means, the term is misapplied in this context, there have been no finlandization at Ukraine. I don't believe this is Putins goal and I don't think Ukraine will start 'Finlandizing'. Finlandize is a strategy that brought Finland benefits and disadvantages, that's why it's a pejorative. While Finland a politically western country, had significant trade relations with Russia, while the European NATO members didn't have that significant trade. I suspect that the opposite will happen in Ukraine. Finlandize does also include politics, where Finland was forced to stay neutral in international politics and couldn't make significant alliances or speak out against either the US or the USSR. I think this term is seriously misplaced at Ukraine since it is speaking out against Russia, while another part of it's population is speaking out against it.
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Re: Ukraine..

#108 Post by notus » Apr 18 2014

Oh well, thanks for correcting me and i can now see that you were correct, fox news does not proviede the most accurate or neutral news

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Re: Ukraine..

#109 Post by Jacklax100 » Apr 18 2014

Thumboy wrote:
Jacklax100 wrote:
Thumboy wrote:This is probably fake because the government of Ukraine is simply trying to stop the freedom fight of Russians in Ukraine, creating lies about their non existent anti-semetism would go great in the mass media! More nonsense to feed the slaves...I mean civilians.

Besides, even if the ethnic Russian rebels persecute Jews, then they are only equal to the Ukrainian government which persecutes Russians!
The Ukrainian government doesn't persecute Russians, it's just hot air from our good friend Vlad Putin. Also the "freedom fighters" are just Putin's goons and really just terrorists. And calling terrorists "freedom fighters" is extremely offensive to me. I almost lost my mom and sister in 9/11. Thankfully my mom missed her train.
They are freedom fighters, not terrorists, this is nonsense! Besides, if these people are terrorists, then so are the people who have just taken over Ukraine by a coup! And if they are Putins goons, then the people now in charge of Ukraine are Obama's goons!

I never called anyone terrorist a freedom fighter! Vladimir is currently supporting the fight against terrorism in Syria while Obama is supporting the terrorists. If Putin is fighting against terrorists, he isn't going to support them in East Ukraine I'll have you know.

Also, respect to your mom and sister, you're very lucky :)
Thank you. Even though my sister constantly bugs me I couldn't live without her.

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Re: Ukraine..

#110 Post by Thumboy » Apr 18 2014

Jacklax100 wrote:
Thumboy wrote:quote="Thumboy"]This is probably fake because the government of Ukraine is simply trying to stop the freedom fight of Russians in Ukraine, creating lies about their non existent anti-semetism would go great in the mass media! More nonsense to feed the slaves...I mean civilians.

Besides, even if the ethnic Russian rebels persecute Jews, then they are only equal to the Ukrainian government which persecutes Russians!
They are freedom fighters, not terrorists, this is nonsense! Besides, if these people are terrorists, then so are the people who have just taken over Ukraine by a coup! And if they are Putins goons, then the people now in charge of Ukraine are Obama's goons!

I never called anyone terrorist a freedom fighter! Vladimir is currently supporting the fight against terrorism in Syria while Obama is supporting the terrorists. If Putin is fighting against terrorists, he isn't going to support them in East Ukraine I'll have you know.

Also, respect to your mom and sister, you're very lucky :)
Thank you. Even though my sister constantly bugs me I couldn't live without her.[/quote]

Of course :) bless you both :)
Hail Putin!

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Re: Ukraine..

#111 Post by GIJoe597 » Apr 18 2014

Sometimes I forget 75% of the world is socialist or communist/theocracy.

I can see the farce is strong here. I will go back to my non commenting on this stuff. Easier all around. :)

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Re: Ukraine..

#112 Post by Hullu Hevonen » Apr 19 2014

Good that I belong to the 25% then :D
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Re: Ukraine..

#113 Post by Jacklax100 » Apr 19 2014

Hullu Hevonen wrote:Good that I belong to the 25% then :D
Me too. I'll drink to that. If only I was over 21...... :-(

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Re: Ukraine..

#114 Post by Balthagor » Apr 19 2014

Hullu Hevonen wrote:Good that I belong to the 25% then :D
hate to tell you, but I suspect he'd consider you and I to both be Socialists. :)
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Re: Ukraine..

#115 Post by Hullu Hevonen » Apr 19 2014

Yeah, I figured, don't know why, but Republicans usually jump the gun in branding me a socialist or communist :p even though am not. @Jacklax, I'm curious what made you brand me a commie, was it the finlandization or 'exposing' fox news? :-) This time didn't say anything about universal healthcare or free education :D . In reality, even the Chinese is more authoritarian capitalists rather than communists or socialists.

But to stay on topic, there is still tension in eastern Ukraine with the Gov branding the Pro-Russian as "terrorists" while the Pro-Russians refuse to give up their arms. We know from recent history that branding people as terrorists ain't good, take for example Syria, Libya, Afhganistan etc for example. Then again I don't belive the protesters and militants to be much better either with equal hate against Kiev. But one thing seems certain, there is not going to be an Russian Invasion, at least not for now as long as the Geneva deal is in effect.

links:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/ ... B520140419
http://www.dw.de/donetsk-separatists-we ... a-17579180
http://rt.com/news/izyum-ukraine-fear-kiev-584/

EDIT:
Are the Ukrainian elections next month actually going to be free and faire?
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/728788

EDIT2:
The people seem to be genuinely pisst at the Kiev Gov also while the Russian gov is apparently on the ground in some covert decree.
http://www.vice.com/vice-news/russian-r ... ne-part-26
http://www.vice.com/vice-news/russian-r ... ne-part-27
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Re: Ukraine..

#116 Post by Jacklax100 » Apr 19 2014

Hullu Hevonen wrote:Yeah, I figured, don't know why, but Republicans usually jump the gun in branding me a socialist or communist :p even though am not. @Jacklax, I'm curious what made you brand me a commie, was it the finlandization or 'exposing' fox news? :-) This time didn't say anything about universal healthcare or free education :D . In reality, even the Chinese is more authoritarian capitalists rather than communists or socialists.

But to stay on topic, there is still tension in eastern Ukraine with the Gov branding the Pro-Russian as "terrorists" while the Pro-Russians refuse to give up their arms. We know from recent history that branding people as terrorists ain't good, take for example Syria, Libya, Afhganistan etc for example. Then again I don't belive the protesters and militants to be much better either with equal hate against Kiev. But one thing seems certain, there is not going to be an Russian Invasion, at least not for now as long as the Geneva deal is in effect.

links:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/ ... B520140419
http://www.dw.de/donetsk-separatists-we ... a-17579180
http://rt.com/news/izyum-ukraine-fear-kiev-584/

EDIT:
Are the Ukrainian elections next month actually going to be free and faire?
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/728788

EDIT2:
The people seem to be genuinely pisst at the Kiev Gov also while the Russian gov is apparently on the ground in some covert decree.
http://www.vice.com/vice-news/russian-r ... ne-part-26
http://www.vice.com/vice-news/russian-r ... ne-part-27
Ok, first off I agree with what you said about China. I am ashamed to say that what was once the greatest, richest, most powerful, and most just power in this world has lost its way. We went from being only weaker than the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit to almost a regional power. If I was the President of America would be restored to its rightful, former, and unique God given right of being more powerful than the rest of the world combined. Anyway I don't remember calling you communist or socialist. If I did I am sorry.


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Re: Ukraine..

#118 Post by number47 » Apr 23 2014

GIJoe597 wrote:
number47 wrote:People, it's Fox News...please be serious :lol:

Get off your "perceived" high horse. Secretary of State Kerry announced this. Many media outlets "reported" on this.


http://www.msnbc.com/all/jews-ukraine-t ... themselves
Am I seriously wrong to doubt the Fox News, a media that became a worldwide synonym for crappy newsreporting? HUH I don't know if the story in question is truth or not, but I sure as hell wont believe it just because Fox says it ("a boy crying wolf too many times" story comes to my mind). :wink:

Unfortunately, even the statement from your Secretary of State doesn't mean much when I remember all the talk about WMD in Iraq by US state leaders :D

My distrust shouldn't be view as an anti-US sentiment because it isn't (I have the same distrust towards Russia, UK, China, or any other "super power" trying to mold the world as they see fit).
I generaly don't trust politicians because very small percentage of what they say is genuine truth without hidden agendas.
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Re: Ukraine..

#119 Post by number47 » Apr 23 2014

GIJoe597 wrote:Sometimes I forget 75% of the world is socialist or communist/theocracy.

I can see the farce is strong here. I will go back to my non commenting on this stuff. Easier all around. :)
I would really like to know what the rest 25% of the world are as I don't see my self fit in the portion you named (I'm scared I wont even fit the remaining 25% :lol: ), and what the farce is? (not the meaning of the word but the subject :D ) And why it is hard for you to comment here? I mean, it was a all civil and polite so far, no hard words were used, didn't really notice anyone get offended or insulted or anything just bunch of us trying to post various info (from various sources) on what was happening in Ukraine HUH

I really hope you'll keep commenting here as too much Hullu can be overwhelming :D
Last edited by number47 on Apr 23 2014, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ukraine..

#120 Post by Hullu Hevonen » Apr 23 2014

number47 wrote:
I really hope you'll keep commenting here as too much Hullu can be overwhelming :D
I take that with love 8) (Whoops I commented :P )
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