Which one are you or other?

[tkobo]

According to some of the latest reports,the worldwide PC games market is hardly dying.From 2009 to 2010,it grew roughly 20% in revenues.They set a record of circa $16B+ in revenue in 2010.And that doesnt count some of the distributors who wont say how much they sold,like steam .And steam has been growing also,being responsible for at least 50% (some say as high as 70%) of digital sales.

For 2011 ,the forecast is for 9%+ growth this year

[George Geczy]

It's actually not that the PC games market is dying, in fact there are some very strong segments. The AAA FPS games, certain MMOs, and casual games are all very strong markets. Strategy, however, is not one of them.

One problem with the increased complexity of the Supreme Ruler series, which is also shared by games from Shrapnel and Matrix, and even the Paradox hard-core franchises like HOI and Europa, is that they no longer encourage an entry point for new players. It's right in many of our reviews - "great game with lots of depth, you'll love it if you've played their other titles". Well that's not going to bring new strategy gamers into the club, unfortunately.

When I meet people outside of the industry and talk about what I do, many of them will say something like "oh yeah, I like strategy games, I play Age of Empires all the time". And no, don't worry, I'm not advocating making SR as simple as an Age of Empires game. But at the same time it's just crazy to make our games more and more complex at every turn. And interestingly, some very complex features of SR2020 and SRCW are rarely used by many (even most) players, so it's not even clear why we have some of them there in the first place (except for keeping the few people that like those features happy).

Fistalis - I'm not sure we'll be leading the charge down into the Idiocracy future, but I like this comment about the movie: "It has been speculated that Fox downplayed the release of Idiocracy because the company did not want to offend its typical viewers." That's pretty funny...

-- George.

[Fistalis]

Fistalis - I'm not sure we'll be leading the charge down into the Idiocracy future, but I like this comment about the movie: "It has been speculated that Fox downplayed the release of Idiocracy because the company did not want to offend its typical viewers." That's pretty funny...

-- George.

Not leading the charge of course.. just responding to the market. As the average intelligence drops, so does the demand for complex entertainment

[Xbwalker]

Personally, I bought the game from day 1. Games like this are a rarity and while they may not see the sales of mainstream games like COD and BF series, they do a good job of giving their core what they want - a semi complex and largely world encompassing game.

I don't think it is the goal of battlegoat to make a game that caters to the entire gaming community. The closest you will get to doing that with a strategy game is Starcraft 2 and other big much simpler titles.

Battlegoat has a core of dedicated fans who love their games and expect similar quality in their new releases. We may not be a huge community but we are a loyal one. This is the main reason I buy their games at release. I want to support them and also take part in helping improve the game from day 1.

[tkobo]

Then again, if there were more games that actually required thought on the players part,that required of all things critical thinking,perhaps the current downward drive by generation of such,wouldnt be as bad as it is.....

IE if the last two generations had more choices of games that were complicated,perhaps they wouldnt be what they currently are....

Markets and their segments can grow ,but usually dont if the primary suppliers in them dont cause them to.

[dust off]

The more complex, less complex debate is interesting and I feel for BG devs because I guess they have a tightrope to walk.

I do wonder why you can't have more layers so players can go deeper if they want to either in game or at start options. 2010 and 2020 seemed more like this, In the early day I would lean on ministers to get my economy out of troubel and then take over again.

The other thing I'd add, is that as somebody pointed out there can be a difference between complexity and depth. The depth comes from frequent meaningful decisions that have implications down the line and doesn't have to be complex.

And I wouldn't suggest you have to pander to the grogs all the time because you may end up with a beast but you do seem to be on a trend to cut data and control. I don't completely buy your rationale that you've balanced it with adding other complexity because you are confusing categories. Economic data and control of inputs to it is not balanced by having proxy wars as a feature. They're completely different fields and play very differently. Proxy wars is on map and affects how territory is taken and is prety much a yes/no decision. Conversly, seeing inflation, if I recall , affected the economy and added to imersion in balancing a growng economy, which mirrorred RL.

I would also add that dipping into history with Cold War has got people talking and asking about SR in places where I didn't really see much for 2020. Unfortunately, often the response has been "broken now" but one to keep watching. Which suggests an opportuniy. What I would suggest is that the expectations of a wider community will be higher than the core fans and things like the continued inactivity of large portions of AI units will not score highly in feedback. And so going back to earlier comments- to maximise an opprotunity of wider interest I'd suggest striving for greater leaps in critical areas. As you realise the depth trategy market is smallish, and people have a memory and a lot of us look at forums and see how others find the games and make our own mind up, as in reviews maybe are not as critical as other genres. Having said that, if a game system P's people off they can be very averse to trying that engine again.

[Balthagor]

... 2010 and 2020 seemed more like this...

I still encourage you to try and get a clear list of the SR2020 features that got cut. Some things I can put back in as mods. Modding can add as much complexity as we like because it's entirely optional and will never scare away new users. The inflation/unemployment values are a perfect example of this, I was able to add them back easily. Some features have changed too much to bring back but others might still be working in the code.

And no need to include RoE in the list, that will be back in the core game as soon as it's fixed.

[Ruges]

I will say SR:CW release was not as bad as Dead Islands release. First release was pretty buggy and a long list of issues. Turns out it was the dev version released. Ok so they release a patch that removes the dev commands. However this patch makes the game praticaly unplayable with huge mem leaks and slow frame rates. They fix this by removing multiplayer ability. Although its not really fixed, its just playable, well solo atleast, as long as you dont mind the occasional crack in sound and poor animation. Which is kinda sad becouse I had allot of hopes for this game. exspecialy after viewing the first promo video they did, made the game look great. Thats why I always need to remind myself to be weiry of promoes that dont show ingame footage.

[Fistalis]

I will say SR:CW release was not as bad as Dead Islands release. First release was pretty buggy and a long list of issues. Turns out it was the dev version released. Ok so they release a patch that removes the dev commands. However this patch makes the game praticaly unplayable with huge mem leaks and slow frame rates. They fix this by removing multiplayer ability. Although its not really fixed, its just playable, well solo atleast, as long as you dont mind the occasional crack in sound and poor animation. Which is kinda sad becouse I had allot of hopes for this game. exspecialy after viewing the first promo video they did, made the game look great. Thats why I always need to remind myself to be weiry of promoes that dont show ingame footage.

From my understanding the issues of a buggy dev version being released was only in the Steam version of the game and not the retail version. But due to steams patching methods being forced on retail customers it ended up Borking EVERYONES copy

[George Geczy]

Is it actually possible to be "Off Topic" in a thread named "Off Topic Comments" in a the forum section "Off Topic" ?

Or would that mean that being Off Topic is actually "On Topic", given what the topic is?

[Fistalis]

Is it actually possible to be "Off Topic" in a thread named "Off Topic Comments" in a the forum section "Off Topic" ?

Or would that mean that being Off Topic is actually "On Topic", given what the topic is?

LOL without being too metaphysical I consider one of my posts off topic if its not related to the specified thread title or OP.

[dust off]

... 2010 and 2020 seemed more like this...

I still encourage you to try and get a clear list of the SR2020 features that got cut. Some things I can put back in as mods. Modding can add as much complexity as we like because it's entirely optional and will never scare away new users. The inflation/unemployment values are a perfect example of this, I was able to add them back easily. Some features have changed too much to bring back but others might still be working in the code.

And no need to include RoE in the list, that will be back in the core game as soon as it's fixed.

Ok, thank you Balthagor. Will be a little while because my hard drive crashed and I need to reinstall 2020. It was illuminating to here that you are usually the one debating for features and complexity to be kept in.

edited: off the bat, a tool tip showing % efficiency of units would be helpful. The current pink bars are impossible to tell which side is more efficient.

[Fistalis]

I still encourage you to try and get a clear list of the SR2020 features that got cut. Some things I can put back in as mods. Modding can add as much complexity as we like because it's entirely optional and will never scare away new users. The inflation/unemployment values are a perfect example of this, I was able to add them back easily. Some features have changed too much to bring back but others might still be working in the code.

And no need to include RoE in the list, that will be back in the core game as soon as it's fixed.

• #1 Ability to launch Defense/comm/intelligence satellites. The cheat code to put up sats work so its still semi functional just need the UI.

[Hundane]

Some things I can put back in as mods.

I wouldnt mind seeing the daily list of top producers/users and import/export figures for each commodity.

[fool]

That's gone? That info was actually useful, for comparison if nothing else.