Which one are you or other?

[goulash]

You must be one of those clever people whom has long since decided that by the time these types of games are playable, you need to wait for at least 2-3 patches and by doing that you will get the game for £13 at the same time due to price dropping.

Or

you must be one of these stupid people who throws it all in at the begining and pays full whack £26, only to find out later that it was probably much wiser to wait for 2-3 patches before purchasing the game.

SRCW does play better than 2020 but as you play it, you will find some things that need to be addressed. Whether or not the next patch addresses these, nobody knows.

After realising the above types you have got sick of paying for new game releases as this is just too common and Battlegoat are not the only ones doing it.

You have started to go back to simple hex based Panzer Corps type games or combat mission remakes as at least they are somewhat stable at release.

For myself, I am now sitting here looking at old classic remakes, simple non complex games so that I do not get frustrated with developers and I no longer feel like a paying beta tester.

[nick-bang]

You must be one of those clever people whom has long since decided that by the time these types of games are playable, you need to wait for at least 2-3 patches and by doing that you will get the game for £13 at the same time due to price dropping.

Or

you must be one of these stupid people who throws it all in at the begining and pays full whack £26, only to find out later that it was probably much wiser to wait for 2-3 patches before purchasing the game.

SRCW does play better than 2020 but as you play it, you will find some things that need to be addressed. Whether or not the next patch addresses these, nobody knows.

After realising the above types you have got sick of paying for new game releases as this is just too common and Battlegoat are not the only ones doing it.

You have started to go back to simple hex based Panzer Corps type games or combat mission remakes as at least they are somewhat stable at release.

For myself, I am now sitting here looking at old classic remakes, simple non complex games so that I do not get frustrated with developers and I no longer feel like a paying beta tester.

Actually I am one of the persons who believe that it is my own interest to keep people like Chris Latour and mr. George Gesczy in business, not just because they are nice and deserve it or because their games hane given me weeks and months of enjoyment - but also because I would like them to keep making patches, upgrades and similar good stuff.

No one give their games more support. At all. Therefore IMHO opinion BG is the closest thing you will get to an honest and decent company in a business which routinely rips their customers off - and gets away with it.

So I dont see it as an expense. I see it as an investment in something to keep my very limited sparetime enjoyable.

[Balthagor]

Moved to off topic as this is about consumers, not about the game itself.

[GIJoe597]

I fall into the, wait until game leaves beta (multiple patches into the "release" product) stage before purchase. I had a job that payed me money to do work, I am not into paying others so I can work.

I know many game companies have to throw games out long before they are ready because they need the income now and they rely on the good graces, or idiocy, depending on your point of view of the spending public.

[Ruges]

I acualy bought the game already. but have not played it yet. I wanted to show my support for BG, But did not want to play it yet. I have allot on my table and did not need anouther tittle. Evenualy I will play it. and its probly just as well that I wait till a few patches are out.

[dust off]

No one give their games more support. At all. '...
So I dont see it as an expense. I see it as an investment in something to keep my very limited sparetime enjoyable.

IMO, that's simply untrue. Their support of 2020 was quite limited when I compare to other Devs support of their games.

Was optomistic about SRCW, but there are so many problems with it that forumites have had a general concensus on since 2010 that I'm starting to getthe feeling that SR is more about the money for them than excelling. So I'm waiting to see how much it come on and for it to be very cheap DL.

Will 'invest' in the odd company, either because thay are small and provide niche game or they have excellent track record. BG no longer has a AAA rating on that front. Heck, even the major faeature changes that make it a new game are bugged and disfunctional.

[Balthagor]

IMO, that's simply untrue. Their support of 2020 was quite limited when I compare to other Devs support of their games.

Really? Our final update was ~3 years after the release of the game. Outside of MMOs, I've seen few developers that go beyond one year of support and maybe 3-5 updates at most. Not to mention our direct participation on the forums...

[GIJoe597]

My earlier post was not specific to SR, but I do think they have given adequate support for the title, as far as they could. Even to the point of the final patch bringing all versions of the game to the most current. I imagine they saved many people some money by doing that. People do not need to purchase the expansion now.

Granted it was done as a PR/get more people into the fold scheme, but that is a valid business tactic I wish more developers would adhere to.

I am fairly certain no one here considers me a BG "fan boy", but reasonable people give credit where credit is due. I have logged 1000's of hours on SR and feel it was money well spent in the end.

I am also pretty confident that when I finally do feel comfortable purchasing Cold War, I will get just as much enjoyment out of it.

[dust off]

IMO, that's simply untrue. Their support of 2020 was quite limited when I compare to other Devs support of their games.

Really? Our final update was ~3 years after the release of the game. Outside of MMOs, I've seen few developers that go beyond one year of support and maybe 3-5 updates at most. Not to mention our direct participation on the forums...

Yeah, I don't like saying it, but:
2010 lookwed like a labour of love- and respect for all what was new with that.
2020- was a little light on new stuff but hey we got whole world. Loved it for 5 minutes then got RSI with clicking.
Global Crisis felt light at the time; but went with it anticipating some leaps anytime next.

SRCW- man, one way to look at it.
Major issues with the series are just carried forward.
You dumb it down away from your hard-core fan base leaving out details and option with each release.
You loose you quality- then new features, which are light in game play, are bugged and way unbalanced.

3 years with one expansions makes it 18 months after each payday.

Some biases-
I don't play click-fests so not comparing support with those types.
Some of the disappointment, say 10 to 20% may be that with the dumbing down, lack of interest to appeal to thr grogs, could be that you are just moving in a diffeerent direction than would optimally appeal.

[Balthagor]

What "Major Issues" got carried forward? Last I checked the "major reported issue" for SR2020 was game speed which we certainly did address.

You say we dumbed it down but that's just not true. For everything we dropped more got added. Look at the additional complexities of this version;

• * Proxy Wars
  * Colonies
  * Spheres of Influence
  * Funding issurgencie/Support of Gov. or opposition
  * Supporting/condemning actions
  * Space Race
  * Theaters and Battlezones

And if you're considering what was "removed", consider that RoE wasn't dropped, we've indicated it will be back once we fix some bugs in it. The only area I'd accept that we reduced the complexity was the minister priorities, the way they are grouped into 6 priority sets, but our feedback showed that the previous minister priority system was just not working effectively.

And how does any of this relate to the quantity or quality of support we provided for 2020. After all, it is the support of 2020 that you criticized in your previous post, not SRCW support.

[dust off]

Yeah, and the first four don't seem to be working too well, and will we ever be able to release a country after liberating it?

Space Race isn't really affecting the core game mechanincs imo (and I wouldn't expect it to- good flavour though)

Theatres and battlezones.
Can we give AI control of units for X number of areas and keep control of the Theatre we want to focus on?
How does the AI use them because it does not look like their introduction has revolutionised the AI play.

If you are up for debating this then yes, on my side I admit that disappointment mat have clouded my view. Obviously SRCW has moved forward a little; but the point is you are messing with the UI dropping stuff, making shiny new map and carrying MAJOR pain and silly flaws forward.
SRCW generated a bit of interest around the wargam forum community, but user feedback is highlighting similar issues and the frustratingthing is most of them have been talked to death here going back to 2010.

[SGTscuba]

It really depends on the game, if I have bought previous titles and was satisfied, then I will support them by buying it new like I did with SRCW. However, most games I probably wont, and will be tempted to play it around a mates before buying it (that was the case with fallout and arma2).

I do agree with dust off that AI does need improving, although I haven't really played that long and have only played on everything normal difficulty. The AI needs to use more of its forces to attack, and actually attack, not just counter attack. Someone did manage to get this to happen by changing priority, so that will need adding in for the next patch.

I bought the game to support BG because I know if there is a problem, they will fix it, unlike some companies who end support as soon as the game is released, such as Codemasters with Operation flashpoint dragon rising. You have also got to keep in mind, they are a small company, and so cannot fix and test everything at once (although they do listen and incorporate things that are good).

[Balthagor]

Proxies has some bugs, but colonies work fine.

You still haven't explained what these "major flaws" are that we've supposedly carried forward. And the GUI is a very subjective thing. We're only 5 in the dev team and we often disagree on certain issues and have to trust the person in charge of an area that they know what they're doing. Give me a list of all the "dropped" items and I'll see how many I can mod back in like I did for Unemployment and Inflation.

For the Theater/BZ stuff I'm not overly familiar with those aspects, even now I'm playing very little and spending a lot of time in the equipment file/orbats/tech tree and tech support. If you'd like, start a new thread just on Theaters and Battlezones with some specific questions and I'll see what info I can pull out of George.

The point I'm still holding on is that our support of SR2020 was top notch contrary to your comment and continues to be of high quality.

[fool]

What "Major Issues" got carried forward? Last I checked the "major reported issue" for SR2020 was game speed which we certainly did address.

I may just buy simply for that. Decent game speed would be great.

[dust off]

Proxies has some bugs, but colonies work fine.

You still haven't explained what these "major flaws" are that we've supposedly carried forward. And the GUI is a very subjective thing. We're only 5 in the dev team and we often disagree on certain issues and have to trust the person in charge of an area that they know what they're doing. Give me a list of all the "dropped" items and I'll see how many I can mod back in like I did for Unemployment and Inflation.

For the Theater/BZ stuff I'm not overly familiar with those aspects, even now I'm playing very little and spending a lot of time in the equipment file/orbats/tech tree and tech support. If you'd like, start a new thread just on Theaters and Battlezones with some specific questions and I'll see what info I can pull out of George.

The point I'm still holding on is that our support of SR2020 was top notch contrary to your comment and continues to be of high quality.

Will have to boot up the old games to be sure- but you dropped some stuff for 2020 and cut the information available about units. The bar for readiness doesn't work as well for seeing where your units are at. Now no manual control of bonds, recruiting, ROE gone for units.

I have been doing some reflection and checking whether it's a case of reaching a tipping point and then being biased, which could be partly at play here. But I'd stand by an impression that you guys are tinkering with the upholstery while the engine is begging for a service.

I am interested, what weaknesses would you say have been carried forward to SRCW?