USA Elections

[Hullu Hevonen]

Who would you vote for in the upcoming presidential election and senate elections? Motivations and discussions are welcome, though be polite and behave.

[The Khan]

If id be american, id vote for Ron Paul or if they still exist, LaRouche, that guy operates a lot of stands in Germany and they sound better than Republicrats or Demublicans.

[Chesehead]

I'm pulling for Herman caine to win the Republican Primary. Rommney is more of a Rhino, and isn't distiguishable from Obama eneough. The republicans need to run a real conservative instead of a wishy washy guy like they did with Maccain. I would also like to see Palin on the ticket as well. Obama has a lot of problems in this election, and he hasn't produced results in his four years of leadership. I don't think they'll be able to effectivly blame bush like they did last time. Also, he hasn't stumped Un-emplyoment. He simply lies about the current months numbers, and then revises them a month or two later, and the media is too stupid here to pick up on that fact.

Frankly, the media will have a huge effect on the election. They will eventually be seen as liars, as back in 06 when we had the boom, they were claiming recessions, and now when were on the edge of a depression, their claiming recovery, etc.

[Balthagor]

Cain is a strong supporter of the FairTax,[8] which would replace all federal personal and corporate income taxes with a 23% national sales tax on all new goods and services, with a "prebate" to untax goods and services deemed necessary by the Department of Health and Human Services.[9]

Do you think he could get the republicans to swallow something like this?

[italianguard135]

I don't really like Romney and he is the only one i have actually heard of so i'm at a loss. I can't vote though so it doesn't really matter.

[Chesehead]

Cain is a strong supporter of the FairTax,[8] which would replace all federal personal and corporate income taxes with a 23% national sales tax on all new goods and services, with a "prebate" to untax goods and services deemed necessary by the Department of Health and Human Services.[9]

Do you think he could get the republicans to swallow something like this?

Haha, nobody is going to be able to get something like that past both republicans and democrates. Mainly, he impressed me in the debates, isn't a polorizing figure like Palin or Newt, and is a relativly true conservative, (unlike Romney), and he has a limited political background which is the in thing here. Unless maybe Perry from Texas runs, I'm hoping Caine gets on the ticket somehow. As for the guy from Minnasota(SP) or the guy from Pennslvania, I really don't know too much about them, except for some of the moral grounds etc etc.


Then there is Ron Paul.

Personally, I'm waiting till Paul Ryan runs in the next 4-12 years. He's been a rising star in the republicans, and his entilement plan is a good stop gap solution for the the immidiate future.
Or Scott Walker.

[Hullu Hevonen]

i'm considering the greens, not sure yet though

[Chesehead]

O.o. I haven't even heard of half of these parties. I assume the Green party is running Nader again, and the libertarians are in the Ron Paul Camp. The current shift of the repulican party is having more Libs coming into the party and having their voice heard, which has some people somewhat worried, as they are seen as the far right.


We still have people wanting prohibition?

[Hullu Hevonen]

Greens it is , though I really don't know what 'populism' is

The Republican are a bit too much "conservative" and many advocate 'Judeo-Christian' values that I don't happine to agree with.
The Democrats don't just fit as well, seems ok.
Libertarian, too capitalistic for my taste
Socialists, Too socialist for my taste
Greens, Well, if they are like the European greens, I should like them the most of these options, plus i liked them most from the fast reading I did about the parties.
Prohibition Party, HELL NO! Well i'm not a big drinker, I maybe drink some alcohol once a month at most, but Alcohol is still a part of our culture.(Finland)

[Lightbringer]

Cain is a strong supporter of the FairTax,[8] which would replace all federal personal and corporate income taxes with a 23% national sales tax on all new goods and services, with a "prebate" to untax goods and services deemed necessary by the Department of Health and Human Services.[9]

Do you think he could get the republicans to swallow something like this?

The Establishment, bureaucracy loving, Rino wing? Not very easily. But the Tea Party still wields a pretty loud voice, so I think you could get enough Repubs on board for it. The Dems are even deeper into influence peddling through the tax code, so they would probably be the major roadblock. "The Fair Tax will push Old People off a cliff!" I can see the ads now... Oh, and I have heard 17% and 20% as well. Not sure what "%" they'd end up at.

@Cheesehead- I follow this stuff pretty closely, and Perry is still putting out strong indications that he is going to run. Cain is a goodfella, but he has too much of an uphill battle in name recognition and the lack of experience is a two edged sword. He'd make a good VP.

@Hullu- I thought "Greens" were anarcho-eco-marxists? (don't mean that to be insulting, honestly asking.)

-Light

(P.S. You forgot to add "Anyone on the Globe except Obama")

[Hullu Hevonen]

Well, the prohibitation party runs for president.

Well, the Greens here aren't Anarcho-Eco Marxist, don't know about how it is in US . Don't mistake Social democracy for Marxism. They may come from the same origin, but they are 2 very diffenrent things. Social democracy is like Capitalism, except that you have universal health care(no crappy incurance fights or expensive health care/incurances), social benifits, in excange for slightly higher overall progresive taxastion(wich decreases the gap between rich and poor at the same time) . Anarcho-eco, i don't know what means, but can one be marxist and anarcho-eco at the same time?

[Chesehead]

Well, the prohibitation party runs for president.

Well, the Greens here aren't Anarcho-Eco Marxist, don't know about how it is in US . Don't mistake Social democracy for Marxism. They may come from the same origin, but they are 2 very diffenrent things. Social democracy is like Capitalism, except that you have universal health care(no crappy incurance fights or expensive health care/incurances), social benifits, in excange for slightly higher overall progresive taxastion(wich decreases the gap between rich and poor at the same time) . Anarcho-eco, i don't know what means, but can one be marxist and anarcho-eco at the same time?

So, social democracy=socalism? What you described pretty much sums up the Democrat party.

It's also interesting to see what Palin is doing waiting out things and letting Backman take the heat.

[Hullu Hevonen]

Well, the prohibitation party runs for president.

Well, the Greens here aren't Anarcho-Eco Marxist, don't know about how it is in US . Don't mistake Social democracy for Marxism. They may come from the same origin, but they are 2 very diffenrent things. Social democracy is like Capitalism, except that you have universal health care(no crappy incurance fights or expensive health care/incurances), social benifits, in excange for slightly higher overall progresive taxastion(wich decreases the gap between rich and poor at the same time) . Anarcho-eco, i don't know what means, but can one be marxist and anarcho-eco at the same time?

So, social democracy=socalism? What you described pretty much sums up the Democrat party.

It's also interesting to see what Palin is doing waiting out things and letting Backman take the heat.

A socialist and social democratic is still not the same thing. A socialist is a peaceful and milder version of communism/marxism. Socialism has only the economic part of Communism, meaning no political killings etc. Social democracy do not follow socialism that well, social democracy has 'only-the-benefits" of socialism, meaning they have no five year plans etc, but the things I described above, meaning free & good stuff of socialism. Social Democray can be roughly described as being in the middle of pure capitalism and pure socialism/communism. Social dems also supports as little state owners ship as possible, meaning virtually almost none. SD support open markets, no censorship and other capitalistic ideas.

The Democrats sound nice ,though I thought the Greens sounded slightly better.

Don't let the names miss guide you, not everything with a word social in it is communism(, political killings, five year plans, state ownerships etc). I have come to suspect that there is still widespread communist/socialist fobia in the US, when you listen to some politicians on the internet, just the reaction when they hear the word socialist.

Heh, I am not an social democrat , I do support many things they have, so I can live with a Social Democratic gov.

[Lightbringer]

This why we always have those long, heated arguments. In America, a Socialist is anyone who wants to take money (taxes) from people who earned it and give it to people who did not. As for all that political murder and such, aside from the very rare assassination, we don't roll that way. If some party were to try, there are 100 million armed citizens who might have a few things to say about it.

-Light

[tkobo]

Its only that way in the US because the socialists havent completed their soft sell job yet.It could easily end up just like other parts of the world,were violence is the socialists way to steal for themselves what their governments didnt for them.And of course their governments way to steal to begin with,setting the example.

If they ever manage to convince enough of the population here in the US that sitting back and taking from others is better then producing,the killing fields socialism creates will form here also.
--
The problem is as simple as can be.

When people are told they are entitled to the products of others work,and they fall for it,they begin to "see" they no longer need to work themselves.It then becomes "okay" for them to work less,or even not at all,in their mind.

This means theres less to go around.Less people bothering to produce,and even less production from those.

And as people see their work efforts being taken from them,they lose even more incentive to work.Lessening production even more

This means theres even less to go around.And now even more who want it.

As the product supplies dwindles,those who believe they are entitled to it decide its fine for them to take it themselves .The government isnt giving them what it told them they were entitled to,and so they must now themselves take for themselves what their government has failed to take for them.

Those who are have some,now become the target of those who want.The government says they are both entitled to it,and both now feel justified in taking from each other.Without a rational theme of "you get what you earn",both now have nothing to guide them in deciding what and how much they should have,and how they should get it,other than the claim that they are entitled to it.

It called conflict.You now have competing members of the population all told they are entitled to things,that there isnt enough of to go around.AND people who have been told thats it okay for the government to take things from others via force,to give to them.And hence its okay for them to do the same.

And it becomes okay to steal that loaf of bread,even when those its stolen from needed it just as much,because the story is told of how "they were entitled to the bread as much as the other guy,and society is responsible in the end for not supplying the bread to all.The thief was just doing what it had to,its not his fault ".

Welcome to socialism.Welcome to the killing fields.

Just put a handful of junkies in need of their fix,in a locked room with only enough of their chosen drug for one.Its the same dynamic.Keep them there,and each day only put enough of the drug into the room for one......

Violence will be the end result,its just a matter of how long til its reached.

And all it takes is for the lessening of production and available product that socialism promotes,to move production lower than the consumption it also promotes.