Global Capitalism = 21st century Facism?

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Hullu Hevonen
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Global Capitalism = 21st century Facism?

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Re: Global Capitalism = 21st century Facism?

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Hullu Hevonen wrote:http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/op ... 39672.html
Delirious article.
The crisis of global capitalism is unprecedented, given its magnitude, its global reach, the extent of ecological degradation and social deterioration, and the scale of the means of violence. We truly face a crisis of humanity. The stakes have never been higher; our very survival is at risk.
Panic, panic, panic. We speak that it is necessary to cover yourself with a bed sheet and crawl to the cemetery.
Global inequalities and the impoverishment of broad majorities mean that transnational capitals cannot find productive outlets to unload the enormous amounts of surplus it has accumulated.
Only one Chinese market eat all the offered and asked for more.
Although the social democrats were in power during the Weimar republic of Germany in the 1920s and early 1930s, they did not pursue a leftist response to the crisis, but rather side-lined the militant trade unions, communists and socialists, and progressively pandered to capital and the right before turning over power to the ***** in 1933.
The words of orthodox Communist, I think.
The counterweight to 21st century fascism must be a coordinated fight-back by the global working class. The only real solution to the crisis of global capitalism is a massive redistribution of wealth and power - downward towards the poor majority of humanity. And the only way such redistribution can come about is through mass transnational struggle from below.
Truly orthodox Communist.
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Re: Global Capitalism = 21st century Facism?

Post by sirveri »

Lea wrote:Only one Chinese market eat all the offered and asked for more.
Doubtful. How would they pay for it? Ford understood that if he didn't pay a decent wage to his workers, none of them would be able to afford the cars he was making. The current class doesn't seem to understand that. Making advanced widgets with the cheapest labor they can find, but who will they sell it to? The throngs of unemployed factory laborers in the US? The kids working at McDonalds? The unemployed (due to outsourcing) tech workers? The Chinese labor that they only pay enough to feed and house themselves?

When one person outsources it's not such a huge deal, since the rest of the economy can take up the slack if it is healthy and has good strong high paying jobs for the workers inside it. But when they ALL leave, who is left to buy anything?
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Re: Global Capitalism = 21st century Facism?

Post by Balthagor »

If you're going to have a discussion like this you must first define the word fascist without using other nations as the definition. After that, ppl can consider the comments. Without a clear definition of the word you're question has no meaning.
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Re: Global Capitalism = 21st century Facism?

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sirveri wrote:Doubtful. How would they pay for it?
I think that you are speaking about B2C market and available cash only. However, comparatively low wages can help the growth of industry, so B2B market rising. I don't know how was the case with Ford trucks in those years :-)
Balthagor wrote:If you're going to have a discussion like this you must first define the word fascist without using other nations as the definition. After that, ppl can consider the comments. Without a clear definition of the word you're question has no meaning.
Sorry, Balthagor, but sometimes I dream of the forum section without leadership and guidance role of the Party... :roll:

I'm not sure that author wrote a newspaper article with a strict language terms. This is publicism, not a scientific work.
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Re: Global Capitalism = 21st century Facism?

Post by Lightbringer »

Thanks! I haven't had such a good laugh in weeks! :lol:

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Re: Global Capitalism = 21st century Facism?

Post by The Khan »

Lightbringer wrote:Thanks! I haven't had such a good laugh in weeks! :lol:

-Light
I didn't laugh, but facepalmed.

However this point is very good, not even you cant deny that!
Doubtful. How would they pay for it? Ford understood that if he didn't pay a decent wage to his workers, none of them would be able to afford the cars he was making. The current class doesn't seem to understand that. Making advanced widgets with the cheapest labor they can find, but who will they sell it to? The throngs of unemployed factory laborers in the US? The kids working at McDonalds? The unemployed (due to outsourcing) tech workers? The Chinese labor that they only pay enough to feed and house themselves?

When one person outsources it's not such a huge deal, since the rest of the economy can take up the slack if it is healthy and has good strong high paying jobs for the workers inside it. But when they ALL leave, who is left to buy anything?
The worst thing in the world is Mao. His cattle-population destroyed the entire balance in the West.
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Re: Global Capitalism = 21st century Facism?

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I'll repeat. You can't call someone fascist unless you can define fascist. Else I might as well call all Canadians "Shmervicks" or all Turks "Vostiputs".

A word with no clear definition is meaningless. Define the word, then decided where it applies. This goes for the right as well as the left leaning amongst us.
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Re: Global Capitalism = 21st century Facism?

Post by The Khan »

Balthagor wrote:I'll repeat. You can't call someone fascist unless you can define fascist. Else I might as well call all Canadians "Shmervicks" or all Turks "Vostiputs".

A word with no clear definition is meaningless. Define the word, then decided where it applies. This goes for the right as well as the left leaning amongst us.
I'm a vostiput? I'll write this down, would make a nice fictional name for my fanfic.

Fascism is so much overused actually it has become useless. For me, Stalin is a fascist as well.
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Re: Global Capitalism = 21st century Facism?

Post by Lea »

The Khan wrote:However this point is very good, not even you cant deny that!
Obsolete for a century.
Balthagor wrote:I'll repeat. You can't call someone fascist unless you can define fascist. Else I might as well call all Canadians "Shmervicks" or all Turks "Vostiputs".
.
Reflect your own words. I can call you Chris, "Balthagor", "Shmervick" or "taxi". The fact that you can understand or not understand me. But if I use a some tone or context, you feel the emotional attitude at least.
Balthagor wrote:A word with no clear definition is meaningless. Define the word, then decided where it applies. This goes for the right as well as the left leaning amongst us.
There are so many words with unclear, ambiguous, floating definition.
The Khan wrote:Fascism is so much overused actually it has become useless. For me, Stalin is a fascist as well.
Don't you distinguish Stalin from Mussolini?
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Re: Global Capitalism = 21st century Facism?

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Lea wrote:Reflect your own words. I can call you Chris, "Balthagor", "Shmervick" or "taxi". The fact that you can understand or not understand me. But if I use a some tone or context, you feel the emotional attitude at least.
But emotion does not make for logical debate (or useful discussion). Facts are what are being debated here, facts must be used to support assertions.

If you say "Balthagor", this site already defines that as me. If you call me a taxi I can prove that to be false by looking at the definition. If you call me a fascist and don't know what that means, how do I determine it's veracity?
Lea wrote:There are so many words with unclear, ambiguous, floating definition.
...and therefore those words should not be used when trying to assert facts as they will confuse the issue.
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Re: Global Capitalism = 21st century Facism?

Post by tkobo »

You make the assumption those saying such things,and promoting such "thought" give a damn about facts, and are not instead just shooting for the emotional reactions.
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
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Re: Global Capitalism = 21st century Facism?

Post by Balthagor »

And I see the best defense for that to be all ways demand the facts.
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Re: Global Capitalism = 21st century Fascism?

Post by fool »

I'd just like to point out the article in fact doesn't support the thread title.
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Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him."

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Re: Global Capitalism = 21st century Facism?

Post by Lea »

Balthagor wrote:But emotion does not make for logical debate (or useful discussion). Facts are what are being debated here, facts must be used to support assertions.
If you said that as moderator I will not discuss this claim but only shrug. Otherwise, I note that we all are human. We perceive the world all-in-all, not just in the form of logic signals, and therein lies our strength. Don't you think we come here for logical reasons? The logic has its own finite domain.
Further, it makes no sense logically discuss the meaning of propaganda articles (and similar). They are not designed for this purpose and their essence is different.
Balthagor wrote:If you say "Balthagor", this site already defines that as me. If you call me a taxi I can prove that to be false by looking at the definition. If you call me a fascist and don't know what that means, how do I determine it's veracity?
It is impossible to force all people to use a strict language. Moreover, it is often pointless. If some man call me 'bastard' I will not explain to him that he is mistaken because I was born in wedlock.
Balthagor wrote:...and therefore those words should not be used when trying to assert facts as they will confuse the issue.
Do you want to put into the mouth of the author your understanding of the word 'fascist'? Why? Don't you want to understand author's thought before?

I strike my balance: article is a sample of propaganda, written in the spirit and terms of the Marxism, and therefore obsolete for a century. I think that the author does not understand the modern economy and even Marxism (because Marx postulated the certitude of crises under capitalism). The author brings together under the name of '21st century fascism' the diverse phenomena: strengthening the state, nationalism, technological and economical progress and many other things.
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