Libyan Civil War Turnout

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How do you think the Libyan Civil War will end?

Pro-Gaddafi victory
3
9%
Pro-Gaddafi victory, Gaddafi will make consessions to democracy
0
No votes
Death of Gaddafi and therefor end of conflict
4
12%
Coalition occupation, end of conflict, democracy
4
12%
Coalition occupation, start of a guerilla/terrorist war
5
15%
Coalition air strikes will force gaddafi to lose
1
3%
Anti-gaddafi victory, but I don't still think democracy will prevail
10
29%
Anti-gaddafi victory
7
21%
None of these
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 34
SoB
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Re: Libyan Civil War Turnout

Post by SoB »

I was actually talking about the fact that there was a electoral commute hence they knew what a election was they just did not want the people to vote. And a democracy is where the people choose there ruler. You can not have something based on a democracy. It is democracy or it is not democracy.


The terrorist do not need a excuse to do there deeds they want one. That way it will be easier to recruit(brain wash) new members


There are reports of former NTC brigades that are carrying out retribution killings. Black are been targeted has mercenaries. There are certain factions in the NTC that have links or direct funding from terrorist groups(I am on my cell phone will give links tomorrow duty to day)


I am not saying libya is going to turn in to a failed state but it is possible or at least parts of it may become ungovernable making nive homes for terrorists right next door to europe.
You plastic soldiers i will turn you in to real soldiers


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nick-bang
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Re: Libyan Civil War Turnout

Post by nick-bang »

number47 wrote:
nick-bang wrote:...Every and I mean EVERY "communist" or "socialist" state have been a dictatorship without the most basic of human and civil rights...

As a person that lived in communist/socialist state, lived through a bloody war that led to a transition of my country to democracy, I can agree to most you said against that kind of regime but the line I singled out is, and please don't be offended, totaly and utterly BS. I am only replaying to your post because of the underlined word that you emphasised so much as it is not true or I misunderstood you (in which case I sincerly appologize). With all the lack of democracy, free market and "freedom of speech" we did have free education, free medical care, social assistance...so I wonder what would you consider to be "most basic human rights"? HUH
How about Liberty of speech, liberty of religion, liberty to meet and discuss with anyone you like, liberty to create and join any laborunion you like, liberty to travel and live where you like - just to name a few.

Free education, free medical care and social assistance (which by the way is BS - you were forced to work in all the communist states hence no "social assistance"), are not the characteristics of a free state but of a state with a somewhat modern infrastructure and social framework.

Oh you were free alright ... free to live the way the old men with their old ideas and even older political standpoints chose for you. To go against that was "anti-social" and a criminal offence.

Im not even going to start a debate on that because revisionists doesnt rock my boat. If you believe there was a single redeeming feature with the schizofrenic dictatorships that have now fortunately mostly died out - fine.

But dont try to paint them to be anything other than what they were and a few of them still is; point of example being the paranoid regime in North Korea, the technocratic dictatorship of China or the last european dictatorship in Byelorussia ...

End of discussion for me as there is no point going further down that road.
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number47
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Re: Libyan Civil War Turnout

Post by number47 »

nick-bang wrote:How about Liberty of speech, liberty of religion, liberty to meet and discuss with anyone you like, liberty to create and join any laborunion you like, liberty to travel and live where you like - just to name a few.

Free education, free medical care and social assistance (which by the way is BS - you were forced to work in all the communist states hence no "social assistance"), are not the characteristics of a free state but of a state with a somewhat modern infrastructure and social framework.

Oh you were free alright ... free to live the way the old men with their old ideas and even older political standpoints chose for you. To go against that was "anti-social" and a criminal offence.

Im not even going to start a debate on that because revisionists doesnt rock my boat. If you believe there was a single redeeming feature with the schizofrenic dictatorships that have now fortunately mostly died out - fine.

But dont try to paint them to be anything other than what they were and a few of them still is; point of example being the paranoid regime in North Korea, the technocratic dictatorship of China or the last european dictatorship in Byelorussia ...

End of discussion for me as there is no point going further down that road.
If your line said "almost every" instead "every and I mean EVERY" I would not have comment on your post. You can say I'm hairsplitting but thats all I wanted to point out. Saying I don't agree with word "every" is not equal to defending dictatorships...at least I thought so...

Now, as far as I understand your reply (english is not my native language, so I could have misinterpreted it) you responded as if I defended such a regime or "believed there was a single redeeming feature with the schizofrenic dictatorships" or in any way "called for the past time to live the way the old men with their old ideas and even older political standpoints chose for me" and you continued your post in a condescending manner which I find insulting as my family and friends fought and many of them died in a war against such a regime.

So to end this I'll just repeat once again the whole purpose of my previous post: Almost every "communist" or "socialist" state have been a dictatorship without the most basic of human and civil rights...
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Re: Libyan Civil War Turnout

Post by LiKaapstad »

Just passing by saying does & did the revolution affect our daily lifes?... :wink:
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Re: Libyan Civil War Turnout

Post by SoB »

Too early to answer that.
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Re: Libyan Civil War Turnout

Post by nick-bang »

number47 wrote:
If your line said "almost every" instead "every and I mean EVERY" I would not have comment on your post. You can say I'm hairsplitting but thats all I wanted to point out. Saying I don't agree with word "every" is not equal to defending dictatorships...at least I thought so...

Now, as far as I understand your reply (english is not my native language, so I could have misinterpreted it) you responded as if I defended such a regime or "believed there was a single redeeming feature with the schizofrenic dictatorships" or in any way "called for the past time to live the way the old men with their old ideas and even older political standpoints chose for me" and you continued your post in a condescending manner which I find insulting as my family and friends fought and many of them died in a war against such a regime.

So to end this I'll just repeat once again the whole purpose of my previous post: Almost every "communist" or "socialist" state have been a dictatorship without the most basic of human and civil rights...
I did not mean to be condescending nor by omission attempted to effect such an outcome. If I failed to communicate that to you, then I am sorry.
However that having been said, then if the word "every" annoys you so much, then I dare you to bring just ONE example of a communist state that doesnt fit my description... just one ...

Oh ... and as always have nice day :wink:
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Re: Libyan Civil War Turnout

Post by nick-bang »

LiKaapstad wrote:Just passing by saying does & did the revolution affect our daily lifes?... :wink:
The price of gasoline skyrocketed in europe and the southern states of europe covered their insane economic problems behind the war.

Also and perhaps more ominous, then the prospect of an real war came closer as the syrian dictator saw what happened to mad dogs like himself when the people got their will - nor was that lesson lost on the dictator who controls amd support Assad, namely Ahmadinejad. Both of whom have let rivers of innocent blood run through the streets to avoid facing the consequences of their actions.

The only reason the international community havent already made deceisive action against those two regimes are the fact that Iran is controlled and supported by China - in much the same way as they themselves control Syria... So from a geopolitical standpoint we are in a much more dangerous position, the consequences of which will be felt by everyone in the future.
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Re: Libyan Civil War Turnout

Post by SoB »

And maybe there is no oil interests in syria and yemen. No gain no pain. Or no oil no air support.
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Re: Libyan Civil War Turnout

Post by number47 »

nick-bang wrote:I did not mean to be condescending nor by omission attempted to effect such an outcome. If I failed to communicate that to you, then I am sorry.
However that having been said, then if the word "every" annoys you so much, then I dare you to bring just ONE example of a communist state that doesnt fit my description... just one ...

Oh ... and as always have nice day :wink:
Well, if your words are sincere (I'm just saying this as I'm very bad at recognizing sarcasm in any foreign language) than I apologize for not understanding you correctly and accusing you of being condescending. After all, I did note in my posts a possibility that I misunderstood you. :oops:

As for the word "every", my annoyment was not so grave as all this discussion made it appear. It was supposed to be just a casual comment (seems I'll have to start using smilies when I have no intention to enter a serious debate with my comments :-? ).

My ONE and ONLY (because I honestly think it is the only :wink: ) example would be ex-Yugoslavia. Now, if your post was refering only to the states existing today, than I'm sorry to have bothered you [_]O

Nice day to you too :wink:



P.S. once again, I apologize if I in previous posts reacted in inappropriate manner, the subject we touched is still very sensitive for me
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Re: Libyan Civil War Turnout

Post by nick-bang »

number47 wrote:
nick-bang wrote:I did not mean to be condescending nor by omission attempted to effect such an outcome. If I failed to communicate that to you, then I am sorry.
However that having been said, then if the word "every" annoys you so much, then I dare you to bring just ONE example of a communist state that doesnt fit my description... just one ...

Oh ... and as always have nice day :wink:
Well, if your words are sincere (I'm just saying this as I'm very bad at recognizing sarcasm in any foreign language) than I apologize for not understanding you correctly and accusing you of being condescending. After all, I did note in my posts a possibility that I misunderstood you. :oops:

As for the word "every", my annoyment was not so grave as all this discussion made it appear. It was supposed to be just a casual comment (seems I'll have to start using smilies when I have no intention to enter a serious debate with my comments :-? ).

My ONE and ONLY (because I honestly think it is the only :wink: ) example would be ex-Yugoslavia. Now, if your post was refering only to the states existing today, than I'm sorry to have bothered you [_]O

Nice day to you too :wink:



P.S. once again, I apologize if I in previous posts reacted in inappropriate manner, the subject we touched is still very sensitive for me
Hmmm ... I would actually be inclined to agree woith you - in a modern timeframe. Because lets just point out that allthough Yugoslavia was clearly the least insane of the communist dictatorships, then it was still founded by a lot of brutal power. Especially against anyone opposing the communists in general and those who opposed Josip Broz Tito in particular.

And I dont just mean against the chetniks either. I am not defending or attacking anyone. Just stating the fact that it was not a peaceful way to power...
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Re: Libyan Civil War Turnout

Post by SoB »

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?o ... Itemid=115

civil war or just a speedbump on the road to peace
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Re: Libyan Civil War Turnout

Post by Hullu Hevonen »

SoB wrote:http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?o ... Itemid=115

civil war or just a speedbump on the road to peace
hmmm... is my point earlier that Libya runs a high risk of turning into a Somalia(tribal infighting) proving to be true? I certainly hope i'm wrong and that every one in Libya can agree on one government and call a day in the fighting.
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Re: Libyan Civil War Turnout

Post by Hullu Hevonen »

Infighting has begun? now the question is, does this stay to this incident or escalate?
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/20 ... 06584.html
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Re: Libyan Civil War Turnout

Post by Marshall Tito »

the war is far from over!
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Re: Libyan Civil War Turnout

Post by nick-bang »

Marshall Tito wrote:the war is far from over!
What war is that exactly ?

There is a huge difference between unrest and a violent country with a lot of violence - like nigeria and Libya and a country in a civil war like Syria !
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