ahhhhh, chavez....

Off Topic Comments Area

Moderators: Balthagor, Legend, Moderators

Post Reply
PyongYang
Colonel
Posts: 267
Joined: Aug 23 2011
Human: Yes

Re: ahhhhh, chavez....

Post by PyongYang »

A good read of ALL of this is in order...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez
User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 22083
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: ahhhhh, chavez....

Post by Balthagor »

Hullu Hevonen wrote:... he had to have done something right when he has so many hardcore followers(millions visiting 'him')...
I didn't' follow the link because I disagree with your statement. History has proven ppl don't have to be dumb/naive to flow misguided leaders (although some would argue it just means large groups of ppl can be dump/naive).
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com
Draken
General
Posts: 1168
Joined: Jul 14 2004
Human: Yes
Location: Space Coast, FL

Re: ahhhhh, chavez....

Post by Draken »

Hullu Hevonen wrote:For those that still think Chavez was someone that didn't do anything for his people(even if he didn't help the Rich), even if some would have the Venezuelans as dump or naive, he had to have done something right when he has so many hardcore followers(millions visiting 'him'). Watch the vid or read the article


So, what did Adolf Hitler for the German people? He had (still has!) hardcore followers...He had to have done something right...
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
Isaac Asimov, Salvor Hardin in "Foundation"
-
Si vis pacem, para bellum
-
It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere.
Voltaire
User avatar
tkobo
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 12397
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: In a vast zionist plot ...RIGHT BEHIND YOU ! Oh Noes !

Re: ahhhhh, chavez....

Post by tkobo »

Draken wrote:
So, what did Adolf Hitler for the German people? He had (still has!) hardcore followers...He had to have done something right...
Chuckle tm

And sadly, one can find far more than enough of them without even leaving this forum....
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM
User avatar
tkobo
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 12397
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: In a vast zionist plot ...RIGHT BEHIND YOU ! Oh Noes !

Re: ahhhhh, chavez....

Post by tkobo »

...the military museum.....isnt that were they found chav cowering after his failed feb 1992 attempt ?

Interesting they dont see the irony of displaying his stuffed carcass there.....
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM
Draken
General
Posts: 1168
Joined: Jul 14 2004
Human: Yes
Location: Space Coast, FL

Re: ahhhhh, chavez....

Post by Draken »

What does the Chinese say about images?????

Image
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
Isaac Asimov, Salvor Hardin in "Foundation"
-
Si vis pacem, para bellum
-
It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere.
Voltaire
User avatar
tkobo
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 12397
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: In a vast zionist plot ...RIGHT BEHIND YOU ! Oh Noes !

Re: ahhhhh, chavez....

Post by tkobo »

Barnard made that up...he admitted he only claimed it was "an old chinese proverb" to get people of the time to take the saying more seriously . The oldest actual known qoute that comes the closest,is russian.
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM
Draken
General
Posts: 1168
Joined: Jul 14 2004
Human: Yes
Location: Space Coast, FL

Re: ahhhhh, chavez....

Post by Draken »

Well... You learn something new everyday.... But, chinese or not, it is very true... :D
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
Isaac Asimov, Salvor Hardin in "Foundation"
-
Si vis pacem, para bellum
-
It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere.
Voltaire
Hullu Hevonen
General
Posts: 3604
Joined: Dec 11 2008
Location: Turunmaa/Turunseutu, Suomi
Contact:

Re: ahhhhh, chavez....

Post by Hullu Hevonen »

How ever you want to turn on it, Chavez wasn't Hitler. Hitler came to pover with promising to make Germany strong etc. basically promising a defeated and humiliated people revenge. Coming from an poor mining family my self, I can releate to being poor and how important a good social system can be. I think personally that it defeats many of the negatives. As for the rest, I can't really that much pick a side so to speak since there is so many sorces that contradict eachother, some say he was an ruthless dictator, some authorian but still respected democracy. Some would argue that Chavez 'bought' the support of the people by by improving the social system, but how is universal healthcare, free education a bribe, guaranyeed pensions etc? All these contribute to an healthier and better educated population that is benificial to all.

Some argue on press freedom that Chavez mostly got lots of harsh critic from media, while others site journlist that was thrown in jail etc. So because the media seems to be extreamly biased and divided on this topic I have chosen to listen to the people, so to speak, sure the rich hated him, and the poor loved him. I reject the notion that social service is for lazy people and that if you give say unemployed benifits, then they will stay home on the couch and mooch of your tax money. Don't give money for free, add conditions, like force people to go to job recruitment event, apply for jobs, support them etc. When you recieve money from ex. the state, then your sort of their employee and they should be allowed to force you of your ass.

Interesting to se the different views eastern and western media has on the topic.
http://world.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.htm ... roteus.fma
http://rt.com/news/chavez-embalmed-lenin-maduro-985/
Happy Linux user!
Links: List of Mods
Draken
General
Posts: 1168
Joined: Jul 14 2004
Human: Yes
Location: Space Coast, FL

Re: ahhhhh, chavez....

Post by Draken »

Hullu Hevonen wrote:Hitler came to pover with promising to make Germany strong etc. basically promising a defeated and humiliated people revenge.
And chavez came to power promising to make poor people rich ... Both promised want people wanted like every politicians do...

And BTW, free public education and health care existed BEFORE chavez in Venezuela... I am a product of the free education and obtained my High School diploma way before chavez came to power....

Funny, you say you listen to the people... You don't seem to be listen to me.. I'm still Venezuelan and have direct contact with people that still live there... Ah! I'm posting in the internet as well....

You said that you might be biased because you were born poor (nothing wrong with that btw!) ? Well, I'm definitely biased even if I wasn't born poor or rich (just regular hard working middle class) because watched chavez destroying my country and making everybody (except other "revolucionarios" of course) poorer...
Hullu Hevonen wrote:I reject the notion that social service is for lazy people and that if you give say unemployed benifits,
What a coincidence... My wife and I were talking about the mom of the best friend my 6 years old daughter... She is about 30yo, divorced, not physically or mentally disabled, receives money from the ex and told my wife that she purposely did what she could to get fired from the last job so she can live from social services... But guess who is paying for her social services... I'll give you a hint, is not the government...

Do you know why socialism will never work? Because it places too much faith in the human kind and at the same time it underestimate humans beings...
Hullu Hevonen wrote: I think personally that it defeats many of the negatives
Really, what do you think that the thousands of crime victims would think about that? About 20000 murders last year, of which only 10% will be prosecuted....

Chavez sent the message that is is OK and fair to get what you want from the rich... And, btw, if you own a cell phone or a decent pair of shoes, then you are rich....

WARNING WARNING WARNING THE FOLLOWING IS A VERY GRAPHICS VIDEO
('goats if it is too much, by all means, remove it and my apologies)

WARNING WARNING WARNING VERY GRAPHICS VIDEO

That was because a black berry.... Yup some poor guy wanted one and a rich guys paid for it ....with his live.

But you are right, Chavez is not Hitler... Hitler,At least , had the decency of shooting and poisoning himself and order that his body be cremated and destroyed...Chavez, on the other hand will allow us, to revere his embalmed body at the Panteon Nacional were the real Venezuelan heroes rest ....

Yes, I'm very biased ....
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
Isaac Asimov, Salvor Hardin in "Foundation"
-
Si vis pacem, para bellum
-
It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere.
Voltaire
User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 22083
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: ahhhhh, chavez....

Post by Balthagor »

Hullu Hevonen wrote:...Some argue on press freedom that Chavez mostly got lots of harsh critic from media...
At the top of this page is a link to the Wikipedia which is not media and lists a number of unfaltering things. Are there items in the wiki that you can prove as false? Are you able to challenge the credibility of that wiki page?
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com
User avatar
Lea
Brigadier Gen.
Posts: 506
Joined: Aug 31 2009
Human: Yes
Location: Moscow
Contact:

Re: ahhhhh, chavez....

Post by Lea »

In common, socialism is more resistant to the problems and dangers. The government controls the country closer (this is a natural objective of every government). Naturally, the population has to pay more. To prevent it resented, the leader must be a populist. This is a natural trends and laws, people dumbness and true leader's character does not matter.

Hadn't Hitler lost the war, he would have regarded as the greatest Deutsch. It would justify the whole Deutschland and every Deutsch.
Hullu Hevonen
General
Posts: 3604
Joined: Dec 11 2008
Location: Turunmaa/Turunseutu, Suomi
Contact:

Re: ahhhhh, chavez....

Post by Hullu Hevonen »

*still reading the wiki article :-) . 63 pages in total, so far the article is talking about a bunch o positive stuff he did :P .
EDIT:
"Chavista-run organizations have since claimed to have been the target of violent attacks from opposition groups: for instance, the Ezequiel Zamora National Farmers' Coordinator estimated that 50 Chavista leaders involved in the land-reform program had been assassinated during 2002 and 2003"

And so far atleast the first presidential term seems to been positive as well, drafting a new constitution, involving a mix of drafters from different parts of Venezuela and backgrounds. Improved the Rights of Indigenous and Women among other.
Happy Linux user!
Links: List of Mods
Hullu Hevonen
General
Posts: 3604
Joined: Dec 11 2008
Location: Turunmaa/Turunseutu, Suomi
Contact:

Re: ahhhhh, chavez....

Post by Hullu Hevonen »

Whoops forgot to respond.. The wiki article seems to confirm what i've been saying, though he became authoritarian after his third term. His 2 first terms where positive.
Happy Linux user!
Links: List of Mods
User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 22083
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: ahhhhh, chavez....

Post by Balthagor »

Hullu Hevonen wrote:...confirm what i've been saying...
Was what you were saying "he's done some things right"? Or was there another specific statement you were referencing here. You've said lots in this thread, it would be worth clarifying.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com
Post Reply

Return to “Off Topic Comments”