ahhhhh, chavez....

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Hullu Hevonen
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Re: ahhhhh, chavez....

Post by Hullu Hevonen »

Balthagor wrote:
Hullu Hevonen wrote:...confirm what i've been saying...
Was what you were saying "he's done some things right"? Or was there another specific statement you were referencing here. You've said lots in this thread, it would be worth clarifying.
sure, :lol: give me a few hours...

(~3H later :P )
So from 'the beginning':
Beginning of his military career he engaged much in social activities and helped organize local events, which I consider a positive contribution to a society. During this time he came into contact with socialist ideas and organized groups around these in the military. In 1992 his attempted Coup failed, Chavez managed to condition that he get to speak to the people via Television, which bolted him 'to fame', so to speak. He was jailed for this coup. He was later paradoned by then president So staging a coup is not positive, or depending, anyways his message resonated among several people in Venezuela.

In 1998 he wins his first presidential election with 56,20% of the votes. One of the major changes that was the new constitution, which added more rights to indigenous, women and added rights to different social programs, among other things. It also included a 'recall' referendum section, which where to later be used against Chavez.

His second term marked more deterioration in relationship with the US, criticising the US for using terrorism to fight terrorism. He also the poorer people in Venezuela by receiving tens of thousands teachers and medical staff from Cuba, in return for oil, which again agitated the US. Also "November 2001 they voted to allow him to pass 49 social and economic decrees. This move antagonized the opposition movement particularly strongly". Chavez gov also Nationalised most of the oil industry, which further agitated the opposition and the US. With these funds from the oil sector he funded much of the costs of the social programs. Chavez gov was at this point not authoritarian, it allowed protests etc. for example "when the Chávez administration tried to implement educational reforms through the proposed Resolution 259 and Decree 1.011, which would have seen the publication of textbooks with a heavy Bolivarian bias. The protest movement, which was primarily by middle class parents whose children went to privately run schools, marched to central Caracas shouting out the slogan "Don't mess with my children." Although the protesters were denounced by Chávez, who called them "selfish and individualistic," the protest was successful enough for the government to retract the proposed education reforms and instead enter into a consensus-based educational program with the opposition".

There where also much unbaked claims by his opponents accusing him of degrading democracy, while others stated that he did the exact opposite. There where also claims that much of the anger amongst the opposition was because many of them had lost influence and power due to Chavez's gov coming to power. Also most of the media where in opposition against Chavez. There where also political assainations reported on Chavez's supporters, preformed by the opposition. Though during his second term he lost much of his support amongst the middle class.

In 2002 the opposition organized a coup, "A group of high-ranking anti-Chávez military officers, likely supported by figures in the business community, media and certain political parties, had been planning to launch a coup against Chávez and used the civil unrest as an opportunity. After the plotters gained significant power, Chávez agreed to step down, and was transferred by army escort to La Orchila, and although he requested to be allowed to leave the country, he refused to officially resign from the presidency at the time. Nonetheless, the wealthy business-leader Pedro Carmona declared himself president of an interim government. Carmona abolished the 1999 constitution and appointed a small governing committee to run the country. Protests in support of Chávez along with insufficient support for Carmona's regime, which many felt was implementing totalitarian measures, led to Carmona's resignation and Chávez was returned to power on 14 April". So, the opposition did really not like Chavez, murdering his supporters, staging coups etc. While at this time there where indications of Chavez not murdering the opposition shutting down newspapers etc, atleast according to the above linked wikipedia article. After the coup, instead of cracking down(like many dictators) on the organizers he took moderate approaches to the coup, reinstated most disgruntled oil directors/managers(that had been part in plotting the coup and part of the opposition), set up an more moderate economic team etc. "Meanwhile, some figures in the opposition movement began calling for the United States military to intervene and invade the country in order to topple Chávez" Although he increased the numbers of reservists in the military in anticipation of another similar event, which by some is seen as authoritarian, though the military did not crack down on anybody.

Anyhow this led to a 'recall' referendum that he himself had participated in introducing earlier, the voters voted not to recall him. After "various attempts" to overthrow Chavez, he started becoming more authoritarian and socialist. He united the socialist parties into one party, stated during his third term he could stay in power until 2030. He tried in 2007 to make more authoritarian amendments to the consitution which was defeated by referendum. Though in 2009 he managed to abolish term limits in another referendum, making it plausible to stay president until 2030. During his third term he also made new allies in Latin America, spent much money to aid different countries in Latin America. He supported the FARC in Colombia. Overall, Chavez was more radical and authoritarian during his third term, which was negative. Chavez got as well much critic during the third presidency about freedom of expression violations and corruption.

Summary:
He managed to more than halved the extreme poverty, down from 54-56% of population to 26-28%, increase the living standard, increase food security, infant deaths was reduced(due to health reforms), decreased income inequality. But, he also didn't manage to decrease the rampant violent crime, corruption, and towards the end became more radical and authoritarian. Crime and corruption was already and issue before Chavez. Chavez was not perfect, and should not be jugded as an failed Superman, I think it was good that he didn't start his fourth term, as he became more radical, but I think the things he achieved during his earlier presidencies outweighs this.

There, next round of bashing please :lol: :P
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Re: ahhhhh, chavez....

Post by tkobo »

..word is chavez died of a heart attack,brought on by a recurring massive infection in his lungs...

In places like cuba and venezuela roughly 21% of deaths for people with cancer are caused by infections,while something like 6% of such in more developed countries.

...word is also,he cried and begged those around him to not let him die..this is from his supporters who were at his side at the time of his death.Not very "Machismo",but very reminiscent of his performance during the first coup attempt.Cancer and the complications it tends to bring are nasty ways to go.
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Hullu Hevonen
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Re: ahhhhh, chavez....

Post by Hullu Hevonen »

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Re: ahhhhh, chavez....

Post by Hullu Hevonen »

Lol! "Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro has claimed the White House is plotting the "collapse" of his government next month by sabotaging food, electricity and fuel supplies."
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/ ... 54685.html
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Re: ahhhhh, chavez....

Post by tkobo »

Venezuela continues is slide further down the crapper,and now without any toilet paper :lol: Just how failed does a country have to get, that it cant manufacture toilet paper......
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