Africa and middle east ......

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tkobo
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Africa and middle east ......

#1 Post by tkobo » Jan 31 2011

Anyone whos following this,is probably following it enough not to need articles to fill them in,and since so much is completely up in the air .......

Its interesting.I can see myself being for both sides in both cases.Sure,the governments in question where quite questionable,BUT there are worse things out there,and they might just be about to get power in those nations now.

If these nations get decently free, sane,and stable governments of out this, we are talking true watershed moments.But if they go as iran went.......then we get yet another reminder that no matter how ugly things are, then can get more so.

It will be interesting to watch on soooooooo many levels.For one thing,watch food and fuel availability in egypt.The government runs most trade,production,and shipping,and right now little to nothing is functioning in any of those.
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Re: Africa and middle east ......

#2 Post by Hullu Hevonen » Jan 31 2011

I hope they get a more democratic and less corrupt gov. It would ease some tention in the region.
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Re: Africa and middle east ......

#3 Post by Necrophobia_70 » Feb 01 2011

:lol:I'm just wondering where is that logic when it comes to the chinese government. Double standard, anyone?

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Re: Africa and middle east ......

#4 Post by Rhyus » Feb 01 2011

I really hope its over in soon as i am supposed to be going on a Nile cruse in a few weeks

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Re: Africa and middle east ......

#5 Post by SoB » Feb 01 2011

Rhyus wrote:I really hope its over in soon as i am supposed to be going on a Nile cruse in a few weeks
I would cancel and comme to south africa instead but that is just me
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Re: Africa and middle east ......

#6 Post by The Khan » Feb 01 2011

SoB wrote:
Rhyus wrote:I really hope its over in soon as i am supposed to be going on a Nile cruse in a few weeks
I would cancel and comme to south africa instead but that is just me
What about black crime there?
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Re: Africa and middle east ......

#7 Post by Rhyus » Feb 01 2011

I will still go if they let me and i can go on all of the excursions if not then i will have to go next year

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Re: Africa and middle east ......

#8 Post by SoB » Feb 02 2011

The Khan wrote:
SoB wrote:
Rhyus wrote:I really hope its over in soon as i am supposed to be going on a Nile cruse in a few weeks
I would cancel and comme to south africa instead but that is just me
What about black crime there?
Not has bad has made out. If you go to the normal tourist areas you should be safe. And all of africa is danger's and crime riden SA just more open about it and there are some realy viloent places.
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Re: Africa and middle east ......

#9 Post by Benjaminvallen1 » Feb 02 2011

I fully support the Egyptians overthrowing Mubarrak, but it's looking too much like the Muslim Brotherhood will take over. Also, the whole damn region is destabilizing right now. They may throw out the current government, but it will be a complete catastrophe if a sharia-law system were established in that area, and that may be what we're heading towards. The ramifications for global trade and Israeli security would be serious.

Frankly, the USA should never have supported Mubarrak. Israel friendly or not, he is a dictator and deserves the wrath of his people.

'People should not fear their government. Governments should fear their people.'
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Re: Africa and middle east ......

#10 Post by fool » Feb 02 2011

looking too much like the Muslim Brotherhood will take over.
How exactly? They've hardly been involved
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Re: Africa and middle east ......

#11 Post by samuel1991 » Feb 05 2011

Benjaminvallen1 wrote:I fully support the Egyptians overthrowing Mubarrak, but it's looking too much like the Muslim Brotherhood will take over. Also, the whole damn region is destabilizing right now. They may throw out the current government, but it will be a complete catastrophe if a sharia-law system were established in that area, and that may be what we're heading towards. The ramifications for global trade and Israeli security would be serious.

Frankly, the USA should never have supported Mubarrak. Israel friendly or not, he is a dictator and deserves the wrath of his people.

'People should not fear their government. Governments should fear their people.'
Come on lah, the US needs their Middle East allies for petroleum and the combat of Taliban and other terrorist organizations operating in that region. You need to understand the Eastern culture and history that it has a longer monarchy history than one in the West and their culture is very conserative.

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Re: Africa and middle east ......

#12 Post by SoB » Feb 05 2011

It seems forien nanoils are being tageted. Frome what i have read it is goverment secrty forces behind the attaks. Wether they are they are following orders or gone roug or imposter i do not know.
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Re: Africa and middle east ......

#13 Post by Benjaminvallen1 » Feb 07 2011

fool wrote:
looking too much like the Muslim Brotherhood will take over.
How exactly? They've hardly been involved
In fact, they have been quite involved in the street riots. Also, the government has opened up direct negotiations with the Brotherhood for the resolution of the crisis. Furthermore, the public perception of the Brotherhood seems quite positive, and they claim to be offering an alternative to Mubarrak's tyranny, though it's simply tyranny of their own design.


samuel1991 wrote:
Benjaminvallen1 wrote:I fully support the Egyptians overthrowing Mubarrak, but it's looking too much like the Muslim Brotherhood will take over. Also, the whole damn region is destabilizing right now. They may throw out the current government, but it will be a complete catastrophe if a sharia-law system were established in that area, and that may be what we're heading towards. The ramifications for global trade and Israeli security would be serious.

Frankly, the USA should never have supported Mubarrak. Israel friendly or not, he is a dictator and deserves the wrath of his people.

'People should not fear their government. Governments should fear their people.'
Come on lah, the US needs their Middle East allies for petroleum and the combat of Taliban and other terrorist organizations operating in that region. You need to understand the Eastern culture and history that it has a longer monarchy history than one in the West and their culture is very conserative.

Egypt has not been involved in combat against the Taliban, and they've only taken very limited steps to squelch weapons supplies flowing into the Palestinian territories, despite Mubarrak being 'pro-Israel'. Also, the United States does not import oil from Egypt, and despite popular opinion, imports very little oil from the Middle East. Canada and Mexico are our two largest suppliers. The primary threat to the oil supply is any condition which would shut down the Suez Canal. Simply the THREAT of such an event is driving up oil prices.

As for our need for allies, I certainly agree. However, the United States is a country that stands for freedom and justice, and our propping up of corrupt and tyrannical regimes in the interest of 'security' has caused too many problems already. It makes us hypocrites to the people of the Middle East, and we've already seen it backfire with Iraq. Free democracies make better, more stable allies in any case.
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Re: Africa and middle east ......

#14 Post by fool » Feb 07 2011

Well, I'm not sure exactly what you mean... from what I've heard, they didn't start or instigate the protests, and I've heard spokesmen for them saying that the protests are nothing to do with them. Also, significantly, that they will not stand a candidate for president if/when there's a vacancy. I'm sure members have been involved, but that's not the same as the group organising these protests. And the 'line to the brotherhood' is a line to the whole opposition AFAIK, which the brotherhood is naturally a part of.
That said, it's kinda hard to get reliable information (or at least was whilst I was following it most closely), so the above might just be crap. I don't think so though.
"All warfare is based on deception...
Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him."

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Re: Africa and middle east ......

#15 Post by tkobo » Feb 08 2011

@Benjaminvallen1
-but there are NO "Free democracies" in the middle east,other then israel, to work with. And faced with the choice of support no one,or support those who will be the least destructive,if you want to be involved you have to choose the latter.

As for the muslim brotherhood,their youth organization (brotherhood youth)(Shabab Elikhwan) helped organize (for months beforehand) the protests and has been out there in the square since day one.The protests probably wouldnt have even happened had it not been for the brotherhood youth.And thats only taking into account the visible contributions they made,dont forget they are an "outlawed" organization, and often stay in the shadows and hide among other orgs while doing their "work".

The muslim brotherhood is the largest opposition group,and again, thats with many of them pretending not to be part of it.And democracy is not in their plans....no matter what they try to pass off as their "new attitude".
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