Yeonpyeong

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tkobo
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by tkobo »

Anyone want to bet on whether or not they fire on the US forces ?You take the "they will fire side".......

The insane little man is a psychopath,he cant tell right from wrong.All he can do is measure chances of being "caught" in relation to such actions.Good and evil, right and wrong,dont get applied anywhere in his reasoning because he cant grasp their meaning.To him, this was a perfectly justified action,just like the sinking,just like starving his own people to death while shutting down ,seizing ,and forced private farms to "join" collectives.

Theres a damn good reason, this insane little man, like saddam , like hitler ,are used both in likeness and for examples of their actions in testing when looking at another persons psychopathic personality traits.Its simple, the less bothered by images of the men and their actions,the more likely the tested has psychopathic traits.Jails are filled with people who are not bothered by the actions of this man.....
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by wsoxfan »

Hullu Hevonen wrote:See, SK-US is using Exercises to provoke North, again.
So in your opinion what is more provactive: a military exercise, defensive in nature, or shelling a country you aren't at war with and killing four people? North Korea has no provocation at all for this. Yes, they're mad about the military exercise, which was initiated by the sinking of the patrol vessel, which according to the UN, was by a NK torpedo. Even if they didn't then they should have tried a compromise immeadently, and possibly stop a conflict before it started. They didn't and now they have to suffer the consquences
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by Hundane »

You take the "they will fire side".......
He might just test Obama and it could turn out to be a win/win for NK. Fire upon US forces and Obama would need to make big response or face more political set backs here at home. If we make a big response, the US would look like the bully again and feel pity for NK and start sending them aid anyways.
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by tkobo »

An e-rootbeer ?
All the evidence,the visit by kim and son to the art base right before the art attack, the nk drones scouting out the island last week,the nk military drill in august in which they fired shells into the south korean waters not far from the island,etc...points towards a preplanned ,measured, tantrum.Aimed at a "victory" to show the heir's "military prowness",without taking a large risk.

Firing on the US, even with obama running things, is a very large risk.
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by Hullu Hevonen »

the exercice is a direct respons to the artillery exchance, and why do you think such an excersice would be ordered that costs much money? how would you feel having the chinese and north korean performing military excercises just outside your marine time border? You all say that this is not meant to provoce, show nk weak, since it fail to full-fill it's threats, well it's maybe like poking a mad man, though this mad man has nukes. don't confuse, provocaton and casus-belli is not necessarily the same.


Why don't sk try to resolve this peacefully then?
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by sugarkane »

Why don't sk try to resolve this peacefully then?
South Korea have tried a number of times over the years. It has been on there highest agenda for a long time. 'Sunshine policy' is one of those agreements. However I would side with the contrary, I believe South Korea do have a high level of 'Casus-Belli'. Since Kim Jong Il has taken power he has certainly destroyed all progress his predecessor's made. They even had unified sports teams competing around the world, just a few months before he took power.

I would say the South have more than enough good reason to invade, if they so choose. Kim Jong Il has destabalized the region imensely with Nuclear developments, consistent attacks of S.Korean land and people etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunshine_Policy
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AH12520101118
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-party_talks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Kore ... antagonism
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by sugarkane »

North Korea has warned that the impending joint military exercises by the South and the US are pushing the region to "the brink of war".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11844387
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by Balthagor »

The very fact that there is a mad man with nukes makes attempts by the US and SK to be sure they are ready for trouble reasonable. If NK has a problem, they should take it up at the UN. The US and SK (usually) listen there.

And the North claims US & SK are getting ready to invade them but there is nothing indicate that Obama is willing to enter into an illegal war the way Bush was so his claim just doesn't hold up. There's no way Obama would or could strike first, there are too many Geopolitical issues he'd have to deal with.
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by Hullu Hevonen »

Maybe these actions is an escalation of the crab wars, and none of the countries seek an land invasion, but instead tries to provoke a sea war, a limited war would be less costly for both parties, but would still be a confrontation. Well, now i'm guessing/estimating :-)
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by Lightbringer »

@Hullu

You are attempting to justify cold blooded murder and acts of war. Your justification? A few ships and planes moving around. Not crossing into sovereign air or water space, simply maneuvering in their own territory. Do you realize exactly how insane your failed attempt at moral equivalency makes you sound?
Balthagor wrote:...there is nothing indicate that Obama is willing to enter into an illegal war the way Bush was...
Should I reopen the Iraq war threads and we can rehash the dozens and dozens of U.N. resolutions, sanctions, etc. etc. that provided legitimate causus belli against Iraq? Perhaps we can discuss acts of ethnic cleansing and attempted genocide against the Kurds? Military actions against U.N. sanctioned military forces enforcing sanctions? Human rights violations by the truckload? Three wars of aggression?

Just because Europe and Canada et al did not have the nerve to sack up against Saddam, did not make it illegal. To judge by the wailing and moaning, you would have thought Mother Theresa was running Iraq as an orphanage for the globe when we rolled in.

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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by Balthagor »

Lightbringer wrote:...Should I reopen the Iraq war threads and we can rehash the dozens and dozens of U.N. resolutions, sanctions, etc. etc. that provided legitimate causus belli against Iraq?...
you can if you like too, but you know my rate of responses in the Off Topic section. However justification does not equate to legal standing. I'm not even saying they should/should not have done it, just that it was not in accordance with international laws as determined by the U.N. And yes, I know your opinion of the U.N.

My point was that I do not see Obama being willing to do something in contravention to international law. That was my point.
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by Eldin »

Would the US even be able to fight another full fledged war? I am under the impression that the US military is severely taxed when it comes to personnel.
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by Lightbringer »

Balthagor wrote:...I'm not even saying they should/should not have done it, just that it was not in accordance with international laws as determined by the U.N. And yes, I know your opinion of the U.N.
We don't have to go into our whole disagreement about the U.N. I do have a quick question that you can ponder privately if you do not have time to discuss.

"If the United Nations is incapable or unwilling to stop blatant, dangerous criminals such as Saddam Hussein (or Kim Jong Il for that matter), then what good is it, and why should the United States, or any nation, pay it any heed?"

@Eldin

South Korean manpower, United States Naval and Air Power. The South Koreans do have a vested interest in not being conquered by North Korea or China, I would imagine. I do not see it coming to all out war unless the North Koreans actually invade. Just my opinion mind you.
(Edit: The Chinese might be using NK as a stalking horse/distraction, with eyes on Taiwan while Obama the invertebrate is still in charge.)

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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by Hullu Hevonen »

Lightbringer wrote:@Hullu

You are attempting to justify cold blooded murder and acts of war. Your justification? A few ships and planes moving around. Not crossing into sovereign air or water space, simply maneuvering in their own territory. Do you realize exactly how insane your failed attempt at moral equivalency makes you sound?...
Didn't I make my point clear why I "try to justify" NK aggression? and I specifically pointed out that you should remember that I do condemn the killing of civilians. Please check my earlier post, the first post posted on 25 nov(according to my time) on page 1.

And if you don't know why the territory is disputed please see, Crab Wars on eg. Wikipedia. The waters where they might be maneuvering is disputed territory, and NK consider it to be part of it's territory and they would try to defend it, as SK would it's.
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by The Khan »

Although I'd love to see NK toppled, certainly US and SK could train and fire a little bit away from the already hot borders, right?

It's like SK and US wash a car real close to NK's house, water splashes on NK's unread newspaper and NK flips out and shoots SK and wounds it.

Although NK is the morally wrong here, other side isn't doing well either.
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