Yeonpyeong

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Lightbringer
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Yeonpyeong

Post by Lightbringer »

I guess the little Mad Man wanted some excitement before he keeled over...
SEOUL—North Korea fired artillery rockets at a South Korean island near a disputed western maritime border Tuesday, in a clash that killed two South Korean marines and set numerous buildings on fire.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... re_twitter

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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by Ruges »

Heh, he has to be thinking, "if this don't provoke them to attack me, I dont know what will".
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by wsoxfan »

So, who thinks that this will be the final straw? Who thinks they'll be at war by the end of the year (if they aren't already)
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by ZT Strike »

If this ends peacefully I will be amazed. If I was a SK citizen and saw this on the news, my response would have been: "OH HELL NO! Where is my rifle?"
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by tkobo »

This will go nowhere again.It'll go down in history as just another action by an insane little man,that he got away with.Yet another tantrum.South Korea has too much to lose and nothing worth the effort to win even in victory,europe cant afford to maintain even its mostly inactive military,japan doesnt have one,and the US currently has an administration thats just not credible militarily and seen as questionable as to whether or not they would really back an ally if push came to shove and it thought it could weasel out of it.

The heir apparent has started a purge,arresting party members in droves,and the famine is in full swing.Something like 1 in 4 of nk's population only eats at all because of foreign aid food.The greater bulk of that food aid comes from SK,UN, and china normally, but china has a food problem itself right now and has drastically cut back its food aid to NK.War would remove the SK and UN food aid .

And so NK doesnt want a war right now either.It just wants to be able to show "victories" for the new dear tyrant and remind those who stay in power that the meager power they hold is based solely on the will of their leader.And the sinking and this are about the best they can do scale wise.Expect more of such,for at least the next few years.
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by Hullu Hevonen »

well, maybe the "little mad man" is tired of living in an economically faild country, probobly case 20-25% of the population serve the military. If the Korean War would of ended in a peace(like Bary the hatch) instead of cease fire, well Then I think that NK could of developed into something, but maintaining a Overlarge military and war economy(less investment in growth, and more investment in Military), though, NK is not able to come with very modern equip either. :-?

As of this specific incident, NK had some casus belli, SK-USA provoked on purpose with that large military exercise, NK threatened with war if they went through with the exercises, though no war has been declared yet, but maybe this is the first step to lure SK to declare war.

By the way, it would be stupid and a waste of manpower to "take your rifle" and go up against missiles.
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by Balthagor »

Hullu Hevonen wrote:...SK-USA provoked on purpose with that large military exercise...
I'd have to look up the exact nature of the exercise, but I don't agree. It's SK territory, every country does training. Particularly when you live next door to a loony-toon. The NKs can protest the exercises but killing ppl over a training exercise? That's disproportionate response.
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by Lightbringer »

Hullu Hevonen wrote:well, maybe the "little mad man" is tired of living in an economically faild country, probobly case 20-25% of the population serve the military. If the Korean War would of ended in a peace(like Bary the hatch) instead of cease fire, well Then I think that NK could of developed into something, but maintaining a Overlarge military and war economy(less investment in growth, and more investment in Military), though, NK is not able to come with very modern equip either. :-?
You do realize the fallacy of this argument, right? Or do you think that the war somehow "ended in a peace, instead of a ceasefire" for South Korea? Seems to me that their economy is doing just fine. Perhaps you should compare Communism and Democracy and see which system provided a better life for it's people under the exact same circumstances.

As of this specific incident, NK had some casus belli, SK-USA provoked on purpose with that large military exercise, NK threatened with war if they went through with the exercises, though no war has been declared yet, but maybe this is the first step to lure SK to declare war.
So if my neighbor washes his car, I am justified to shoot his dog? WTF? Are you smoking mushrooms grown on Caribou dung again? Hell, according to you, Hitler was justified to invade Poland. People who sink neighbor's ships are in no position to claim that some military exercises are proper causus belli.

By the way, it would be stupid and a waste of manpower to "take your rifle" and go up against missiles.
I agree with Tkobo. SK has no sane reason to pay the price to subdue NK. Obama has no Testicles. Europe doesn't want any part of something like this. NK is already "living" under severe wartime austerity (for absolutely no reason at all except leadership insanity), throwing actual war time pressures on top of it would crush what little economic functionality they have.

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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by Hullu Hevonen »

"The US and South Korean militaries are taking part in a major exercise in the Sea of Japan, despite threats of retaliation from North Korea."

"The army and people of the DPRK will start a retaliatory sacred war of their own style based on nuclear deterrent any time necessary in order to counter the US imperialists and the South Korean puppet forces deliberately pushing the situation to the brink of a war,"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-10752746

AND I think that the Sinking of Cheaong(or how you spell it) is an invalid casus-belli to use as an excuse to for the military exercise, for the following arguments;
*Cheaong was sunk on disputed territory, where NK and SK both consider the area part of their terriotry, therefor if the other comes to that territory, then the defender will take measures to defend "their" border. You can't wander into a war zone expecting no causalities.
*North Korea has denied that they where responsible for the sinking.
*The truth about the sinking is unclear, so that should of been clarified properly before intentionally provoke an instable Government, it is common knowledge that the Korean Gov is screwed.

So thats why in my opinion NK's actions is more justifed, because they where provoked to it. I do condemn killing of Civilians, though South Korea is an representative Democracy, the people there have more say in their governments actions than those in North Korea, but do remember that I said that I condemn.
Lightbringer wrote:You do realize the fallacy of this argument, right? Or do you think that the war somehow "ended in a peace, instead of a ceasefire" for South Korea? Seems to me that their economy is doing just fine. Perhaps you should compare Communism and Democracy and see which system provided a better life for it's people under the exact same circumstances.

The Sovjet GDP/c was in 1929, 1386$, and in 1939, 2237$, a growth of ca. 61%. While the US GDP/c was during the same times, 6899$ in 1929 and in 1939 6561$, a growth of ca. -5%.
USA GDP/c growth from 1980(18577$) to 1985(20717$) was ca. 11,5%, while Sovjet economy was at 6427$ in 1980 and in 1985 at 6708, making the growth at ca. 4,4%. Showing that Communism is better for developing/poor nations, while Capitalism better suited for "richer" nations. Also Watch the economic growth of communist China, well, they are still on the poor side, but are growing at high speed, and I bet that they will need to make more "capitalistic" changes when their people get stronger, and they have already made some small capitalistic changes.


So if my neighbor washes his car, I am justified to shoot his dog? WTF? Are you smoking mushrooms grown on Caribou dung again? Hell, according to you, Hitler was justified to invade Poland. People who sink neighbor's ships are in no position to claim that some military exercises are proper causus belli.

Ooukeeijj...?? Your argument does not make any sence, washing cars, shooting dogs???
Balthagor wrote:I'd have to look up the exact nature of the exercise, but I don't agree. It's SK territory, every country does training. Particularly when you live next door to a loony-toon. The NKs can protest the exercises but killing ppl over a training exercise? That's disproportionate response.

Well, here in Finnish news tv it was reported that SK-US was purposely shooting blanks at the NK border, so I can only imagine that it was to provoke North Korea. Though I can't find the source anywhere to the news cast :-( .

other sources:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Media/us ... d=10807101
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009- ... 973989.htm
http://www.voanews.com/english/news/usa ... 20814.html
http://www.kcna.co.jp/index-e.htm (DPRK Propaganda, or their version of what happined 24.11.2010)
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by Balthagor »

All source I've seen indicated they fired artillery shells south. If they're on an Island small arms fire directed at the North would be undetectable unless the NKs are closer their they should be.
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by sugarkane »

Too bad the only people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs and cutting hair

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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by Hullu Hevonen »

See, SK-US is using Exercises to provoke North, again.
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by Eldin »

What would be the reason for provoking NK? I can not fathom what SK and the USA would stand to gain by it rather than "probing" and see how NK will react.
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by Balthagor »

Hullu Hevonen wrote:See, SK-US is using Exercises to provoke North, again.
How is something happening outside their country provocation?
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Re: Yeonpyeong

Post by sugarkane »

Balthagor wrote:
Hullu Hevonen wrote:See, SK-US is using Exercises to provoke North, again.
How is something happening outside their country provocation?
Provocation is a strong word. Clearly it is raising tensions, maybe feeling threatened is a better word to use. How would you feel if you saw this thing parked off your coast?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11840385

I am also struggling to see how a conflict would benefit anyone there. I am sure the North would be glad to get food, but other than that who benefits? It would be an economical mess for anyone to take that on.

Maybe that is the way war should be, actually 'helping' people rather than for natural resources or strategic locations etc.
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