Wikileaks: There is no good side.

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Lea
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Re: Wikileaks: There is no good side.

Post by Lea »

Lightbringer wrote:You seem to misunderstand the fundamental difference between Damaging National Security, and damaging the image of "regime and public policy"
You wish it were so. You simultaneously condemns state control over good Americans and praise it over bad another. Soon you will forget your term "Public enemy" and will adopt our term "Enemy of the people"
Lightbringer wrote:Damaging our War efforts makes American citizens and American troops less safe. Being safe is probably one of the "interests of the people".
If that interest defines your behavior, you are no different from the amoeba. Instead of adapting to a changing world you are trying to gobble up the irritants and if it does not work then pupate and try to stop the time.
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Re: Wikileaks: There is no good side.

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Lea wrote:
Lightbringer wrote:You seem to misunderstand the fundamental difference between Damaging National Security, and damaging the image of "regime and public policy"
You wish it were so. You simultaneously condemns state control over good Americans and praise it over bad another. Soon you will forget your term "Public enemy" and will adopt our term "Enemy of the people" What the freaking hell are you talking about? Julianne Assange is NOT an American. I did not refer to Assange as either a "Public Enemy", or an "Enemy of the People". He is a foreign spy who has committed acts of espionage against the security interests of the United States of America. Please explain why prosecuting foreign spies is somehow "Big Brother".
Lightbringer wrote:Damaging our War efforts makes American citizens and American troops less safe. Being safe is probably one of the "interests of the people".
If that interest defines your behavior, you are no different from the amoeba. Instead of adapting to a changing world you are trying to gobble up the irritants and if it does not work then pupate and try to stop the time. Adapt how exactly? All of us convert to Islam so that they will stop trying to kill us? Perhaps we could "adapt to a changing world" by committing mass suicide? When Muslims kidnap and rape Russian school children, do you "adapt to the changing world"? No. You kill the scumbags. When terrorists detonate bombs in Moscow subways, do you "adapt to the changing world"? Are you trying to say that if Russians feel that their safety is important, they are Amoebas? Would you consider yourself an Amoeba if you wished for your wife's safety from Islamic terror attacks while she traveled to Israel for medical treatment? If she had been killed, would you just shrug and tell yourself, "I should just adapt to the changing world."? You can argue with me all day long about our methods. But really? You are going to call us subhuman for protecting ourselves from espionage, or resisting violent attacks from Islamic Fundamentalists? For the record; I did not claim that "Safety" defines our behavior. I made the claim that safety from foreign enemies is a legitimate concern of the American Population, regardless of whatever political party or public policy might have it's image damaged or enhanced.
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Re: Wikileaks: There is no good side.

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Lea how can you tell some one to acept the leaking of there nations secreats. Do you realy think that we bielf that you would acept your nations secreats be told to the whole world, and if you do say yes you not worthy of calling yourself russian. If you can not stand behind your flag what can you stand behind.
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Re: Wikileaks: There is no good side.

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Lightbringer wrote: He is a foreign spy who has committed acts of espionage against the security interests of the United States of America.
Really? Spying means the transfer of information to the enemy, not for free-for-all publication. Why do not you call Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein as spies?
Lightbringer wrote:Please explain why prosecuting foreign spies is somehow "Big Brother".
First because Assange not a spy. Second, "enemies of the people" always accused of spying. Third, the state intentionally raised hysteria in the society about them.
Lightbringer wrote:Adapt how exactly? All of us convert to Islam so that they will stop trying to kill us? Perhaps we could "adapt to a changing world" by committing mass suicide?
You are falling into the extreme once again. Even in the most terrible nightmare I could not plan to guide and cultivate the American people. But we're not talking about Islam. Look at Assange: he is a product of modern Australian society, which is close to America. Some Americans send documents to Wikileaks and lot more read it. Assange and Wikileaks can't have more to Islam than the Boeings hitting the towers.
Lightbringer wrote:When Muslims kidnap and rape Russian school children, do you "adapt to the changing world"? No. You kill the scumbags. When terrorists detonate bombs in Moscow subways, do you "adapt to the changing world"?
I am aware that the conflict has grown largely due to a failed policy of my government, that officials wants to achieve their personal goals and shield yourselves by the common people from the bullets and bombs. My state with one hand shooting terrorists and with another hand grows them, and this applies to many states. So I want to say that state can shoot or don't shoot the terrorists, but above all should stop to stimulate terror directly and indirectly.
Lightbringer wrote:Are you trying to say that if Russians feel that their safety is important, they are Amoebas? Would you consider yourself an Amoeba if you wished for your wife's safety from Islamic terror attacks while she traveled to Israel for medical treatment? If she had been killed, would you just shrug and tell yourself, "I should just adapt to the changing world."?
Road accidents kill more people than all the terrorists around the world. And what do you advise a man who has lost a loved one? To destroy all somehow related to the cause of the loss? Or to adapt to the loss and try to begin a new stage of life?
Lightbringer wrote:ou can argue with me all day long about our methods. But really? You are going to call us subhuman for protecting ourselves from espionage, or resisting violent attacks from Islamic Fundamentalists?
I'm trying to explain to you that is incorrect to link together Assange and Islamic terrorists. Such linking technique can be used for anything: from beef to cellphones.
Lightbringer wrote:For the record; I did not claim that "Safety" defines our behavior. I made the claim that safety from foreign enemies is a legitimate concern of the American Population, regardless of whatever political party or public policy might have it's image damaged or enhanced.
Well, you can to be concerned about it. However in that case your concern took a shape of madness. As if after the towers you have demanded to forbid or destroy a passenger aircraft service.
SoB wrote:Lea how can you tell some one to acept the leaking of there nations secreats. Do you realy think that we bielf that you would acept your nations secreats be told to the whole world, and if you do say yes you not worthy of calling yourself russian. If you can not stand behind your flag what can you stand behind.
Do not tell me what I should do, and I would not tell you where you should go. My country is sometimes worthy and sometimes unworthy, and I have courage enough to admit it.
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Re: Wikileaks: There is no good side.

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Assang is a spy/infomation pedlar. Where does it say a spy must work for your opoinat you can be spyed on by your ally's or in this case a free agent. And you said it your self he is realsing he's infomation to every one that means the good the bad and the ugly.
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Re: Wikileaks: There is no good side.

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SoB wrote:Assang is a spy/infomation pedlar. Where does it say a spy must work for your opoinat you can be spyed on by your ally's or in this case a free agent.
I note again: Wikileaks has no concrete clients or purchasers of secret information.
SoB wrote:And you said it your self he is realsing he's infomation to every one that means the good the bad and the ugly.
Public sources contains a lot more dangerous information, e.g. about explosive, poisons, nuclear bomb and bioweapons. And do you really tell me that names of dozen agents together with diplomatic gossips possible to be compared with it? Wikileaks threatens international and state bureaucracy, not common people.
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Re: Wikileaks: There is no good side.

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He does have clients in the form of the genral public. Althou he has not tageted the common people people. The infomation could be used and action tacken on this new infomation could directly or indirectly harm the common people. Maby someone iraq will now hate amrica enough to becom a sucid bomer, or terst now know the most damging targets to strike.
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Lea
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Re: Wikileaks: There is no good side.

Post by Lea »

SoB wrote:He does have clients in the form of the genral public. Althou he has not tageted the common people people. The infomation could be used and action tacken on this new infomation could directly or indirectly harm the common people. Maby someone iraq will now hate amrica enough to becom a sucid bomer, or terst now know the most damging targets to strike.
:lol:
Let me imagine an illiterate provincial Iraqi, who has mortally hated the U.S. because of Leaks, made a powerful explosive and carry it somewhere in Europe or U.S...

There is a struggle not against individual fanatics but against branched terrorist organizations. They do not have any problems with looking for targets. For example, before the Wikileaks the towers was attacked, Beslan hostages was taken, etc.
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Re: Wikileaks: There is no good side.

Post by Balthagor »

None of the stuff is long term damaging, it's just short term embarrassing.

Key point I think, is governments shouldn't lie to their ppl.
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Re: Wikileaks: There is no good side.

Post by The Khan »

http://sowhyiswikileaksagoodthingagain.com/

So, Why is Wikileaks a Good Thing Again?
WikiLeaks has revealed how scientists manipulated global warming research data in order to make it seem more consequential.

November 21st, 2009

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/enviro ... -data.html

WikiLeaks revealed how the CIA kidnapped an innocent German and tortured him for months, then attempting to stop Germany from arresting its operatives.

December 1st, 2010

http://www.boingboing.net/2010/12/01/wi ... he-el.html

WikiLeaks has revealed how U.S. soldiers used Iraqi civilians as human bomb detectors.

October 23rd, 2010

http://www.iraqwarlogs.com/2010/10/23/h ... detectors/

WikiLeaks detailed Al-Qaeda's use of chemical weapons in Iraq.

October 27th, 2010

http://www.iraqwarlogs.com/2010/09/27/a ... l-weapons/

WikiLeaks ended the corrupt rule of the Arap-Moi family in Kenya.

July 26th, 2010

http://habarizanyumbani.jambonewspot.co ... -and-more/

WikiLeaks exposed 217 cases of UN peace-keepers being accused of sexually abusing and impregnating girls in eastern Congo.

January 14th, 2009

http://mirror.wikileaks.info/wiki/UN_fi ... index.html
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Re: Wikileaks: There is no good side.

Post by LebaneseLion »

Interesting enough

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article ... 97870&R=R3

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Re: Wikileaks: There is no good side.

Post by Hundane »

Really? Spying means the transfer of information to the enemy, not for free-for-all publication. Why do not you call Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein as spies?
I note again: Wikileaks has no concrete clients or purchasers of secret information.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wikileak ... PNheadline
"One of the flaws in the Espionage Act is that it draws no distinction between the leaker or the spy and the recipient of the information, no matter how far downstream the recipient is," said American University law professor Stephen Vladeck, an expert in national security law.

"There's no difference in the statute between Assange and someone at home who opens up something that Assange has posted on his website knowing that it's classified," he said.
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Re: Wikileaks: There is no good side.

Post by Lea »

Hundane wrote:http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wikileak ... PNheadline

Quote:
"One of the flaws in the Espionage Act is that it draws no distinction between the leaker or the spy and the recipient of the information, no matter how far downstream the recipient is," said American University law professor Stephen Vladeck, an expert in national security law.

"There's no difference in the statute between Assange and someone at home who opens up something that Assange has posted on his website knowing that it's classified," he said.
First, you forget cite "If WikiLeaks, which allegedly did not steal the documents, is guilty of espionage for printing them". Second, if WikiLeaks is guilty then everyone who spread or discuss is guilty too. The differences Wikileaks case from spying are obvious. This enterprise can be classified as espionage, but it has a different core. It would be fun to see hundreds of journalists and thousands of another defendants on the criminal trial process in the US. That trial can go better Dreyfus affair...
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Re: Wikileaks: There is no good side.

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Second, if WikiLeaks is guilty then everyone who spread or discuss is guilty too.
Yep, according to how some would interpret the Espionage Act. Anyone who reads,prints or talks about classified information could be prosecuted.
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Re: Wikileaks: There is no good side.

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