We're all doomed i tell ya, doomed !Damn boobs

[bergsjaeger]

Humans aren't animals. Name an animal that has morals, laws, and standards to live by. Do you see humans running around in the wild?

[fool]

Humans aren't animals. Name an animal that has morals, laws, and standards to live by.

Humans.

[stephen]

Humans evolved from apes (who are considered animals), so we are some kind of civilised animals. . ..

[bergsjaeger]

We're getting off topic, but I don't believe in evolution. It has too many holes in its theory. Yes, I'm a creationist. To call humans animals in any form is an insult.

A point about evolution, the sun is burning away eveyday, but if the Earth is as old as evolution claims, the Earth would have been within the sun. It be kind of hard for life to begin out of thin air if the planet's on fire.

If no one believe's that then do the math, Earth distance from the sun, divid that by the amount the sun is shrinking per day and the years of age evolution claims the earth is.

[Eldin]

We're getting off topic, but I don't believe in evolution. It has too many holes in its theory. Yes, I'm a creationist. To call humans animals in any form is an insult.

A point about evolution, the sun is burning away eveyday, but if the Earth is as old as evolution claims, the Earth would have been within the sun. It be kind of hard for life to begin out of thin air if the planet's on fire.

If no one believe's that then do the math, Earth distance from the sun, divid that by the amount the sun is shrinking per day and the years of age evolution claims the earth is.

It doesn't work like that. As the sun is losing mass it grows bigger not smaller in size.

[fool]

I'm bored, so let's indulge.

Radiation flux density, R (I'm sure I'm not using the correct symbols, just bear with it) on the earth is about 1366 W/m^2.

The average distance between the earth and sun, r, is 149,597,870.7 kilometers (~1.5*10^11 m).

To find total solar irradiance, I, we just have to multiply the flux density (R) by the total area it is spread over, which is equal to 4Ï€r^2. This is the energy emitted by the sun, in joules, per second: power, or E/t.

We can now find from this the mass loss per second using Einstein's mass-energy equation, E = mc^2, rearranging it to give m = Ec^(-2), .: m/t = (E/t)(c^(-2)) = I(c^(-2)).

To find a value for total mass lost, all we need now is a value for t, in seconds - meaning 4.6 billion years, as the age of the earth. t = (4.6*10^9)*(365.256)*(24)*(3600). I've stored that value, but it's ~1.45*10^17 s.

Our value for mass lost is now m[2] = I(c^(-2))t. But we need to find the volume of the sun when this is added to its current mass, m[1]. That's more information that can just be picked up, m[1] = 1.989*10^30 kg. I'm introducing a new mass value, m[3] = m[1]+m[2], for the mass of the sun 4.6 billion years ago.

Next, we assume that solar density remains constant (or roughly constant), and use ρ = m[1]/V[1]. (Volume values correspond to the number they share with mass.) We can work out the volume by V[1] = (1/6)π(d[1])^3, where d is the diameter of the sun, 1.392*10^9 m. Since ρ is constant, ρ = m[3]/V[3], therefore V[3] = ρm[3]. Writing V[3] in terms of d[3], we get V[3] = (1/6)πd[3] = ρm[3]. Isolating d[3], we get d[3] = ((6ρm[3])/π)^(1/3)

So, to find how much closer the sun was to earth 4.6 billion years ago, we want to know the difference between the two, (d[3]-d[1])/2. The division by two is because it's the diameter, we want the difference between the radii. Then we can compare this value to the distance now between the earth and the sun, and see what its relation is, and if it really puts the earth significantly closer to or even inside the sun. To avoid typing too many goddamn square brackets though: V[1] = V, V[3] = W, m[1] = m, m[2] = n, m[3] = o, d[1] = d, d[3] = e. We want to find (e-d)/2. Our known values are:
t = 1.45*10^17 s (time)
m = 1.989*10^30 kg (mass of the current sun)
d = 1.392*10^9 m (diameter of the current sun)
R = 1366 W/m^2 (radiation flux density)
r = 1.5*10^11 m (distance between earth and sun)
c = 3*10^8 ms^(-1) (speed of light in a vacuum)

((36m/πd^3)(m+((4Rmπr^2 + 16R^2π^2r^4)(t/c^2)))/π)^(1/3)

Now we have: e = ((6ρo)/π)^(1/3) = ((6(m/V)o)/π)^(1/3) = ((6(m/V)(m+n))/π)^(1/3) = ((6(m/V)(m+(I(c^(-2))t)))/π)^(1/3) = ((6(m/V)(m+((4Rπr^2)(c^(-2))t)))/π)^(1/3) = ((6(m/V)(m+((4Rπr^2)(c^(-2))t)))/π)^(1/3) = ((6(m/((1/6)πd^3))(m+((4Rπr^2)(c^(-2))t)))/π)^(1/3). urgh. Anyway, we can simplify that a little.

(m/((1/6 )Ï€d^3 )) = (6m/Ï€d^3)
((6(6m/Ï€d^3)(m+((4RÏ€r^2)(c^(-2))t)))/Ï€)^(1/3)
(6(6m/Ï€d^3)(m+((4RÏ€r^2) = (36m/Ï€d^3)(m+((4RÏ€r^2)

((36m/Ï€d^3)(m+((4RÏ€r^2)(m+((4RÏ€r^2)(c^(-2))t)))/Ï€)^(1/3)
(m+((4RÏ€r^2) = (m + 4RÏ€r^2)

((36m/Ï€d^3)(m+((4RÏ€r^2)(m + 4RÏ€r^2)(c^(-2))t)))/Ï€)^(1/3)
(c^(-2))t) = (t/c^2)

((36m/Ï€d^3)(m+((4RÏ€r^2)(m + 4RÏ€r^2)(t/c^2)))/Ï€)^(1/3)
(4Rπr^2)(m + 4Rπr^2) = (4Rmπr^2 + 16R^2π^2r^4)

((36m/πd^3)(m+((4Rmπr^2 + 16R^2π^2r^4)(t/c^2)))/π)^(1/3)

e = ((36m/πd^3)(m+((4Rmπr^2 + 16R^2π^2r^4)(t/c^2)))/π)^(1/3)
Anyway, that's just stupid, so I'm going to use stored answers as I go along instead:

I = 3.86*10^26 W
t = 1.45 * 10^17
n (mass lost) = 6.23 * 10^26 kg
o (mass of sun 4.6 bn years ago) = 1.990*10^30 kg
ρ = 1.408 kgm^-2
W (volume of sun 4.6 bn years ago) = 1.41*10^27 m^3
e (diameter of sun 4.6 bn years ago) = 1.39*10^9 m
(e - d)/2 (difference between two radii) = 7.27 * 10^4 m
Basically about 10,000 m. That's really not gonna get the sun much closer to earth. To put it in perspective, it's a fractional increase of about 0.01% on the sun's current diameter. Sorry for all the bullshit, but I can't be bothered to go back and figure out which bits were relevant and which weren't.

And thanks eldin, it seems it's a mistaken assumption that the density remains constant in any case

[sugarkane]

That is brilliant. Do not understand the majority of it. But enjoyed reading it none the less.

[bergsjaeger]

umm, I was never good at math. So i'm just going on your word of the result. And how did we get to creation verse evolution? Anyway, I never sell on evolution. Its just silly. As for dinosaurs, I do believe they exist, and still do. What I assume the bible means when it refers to dragons.

[stephen]

Think abot this, the DNA of all creatures on this planet have similarities, when talking about humans and apes - the DNA'a are very similar.
I don't belive in a supernatural god that created the world and universe. The only creationist theory I can think possible i that we where created by an extraterestial species. Anyway sorry for the reply.

[fool]

This is the off topic section, it's probably ok

[bergsjaeger]

See Stephen, we have different views. But the only truth to be certain we all find out what is real in the afterlife. Though, by my belief I know what it be.

[fool]

Well, we don't find out what is true in the afterlife if there isn't an afterlife.

[bergsjaeger]

Well afterlife always meant after death to me.

[fool]

Sure, but if we all just die and that's it, it's not like we're gonna metaphorically jump up, point the finger at theists and scream, "hah! Told you so!"

[bergsjaeger]

I wouldn't. If my belief is true, which to me it is, I would actually be sadden for others that were wrong.

Also, one thing about evolution. If we all are a result of chance, which evolution actually teaches, then humans by DNA or enviroment could be inferior to other humans. Which means it be ok to be stereotypical to other people if their differnet in any way because you think your superior. So happen you have a talent or skill, a knowledge in something, or just better looking, you are superior, or just another race.

However by my beliefs all humans are created equal. No one is better than anyone else. We all are the same in God's eye. To me its better to be equal and believe you are not better nor inferior to the person beside you.