Great Moments in Nationalized Health Care...

Off Topic Comments Area

Moderators: Legend, Balthagor, Moderators

Message
Author
User avatar
tkobo
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 11833
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: In a vast zionist plot ...RIGHT BEHIND YOU ! Oh Noes !

Re: Great Moments in Nationalized Health Care...

#16 Post by tkobo » Mar 10 2010

Didnt it ?

Explain to me why canada has standing contracts with US hospitals to take care of patients they cant themselves ?Explain to me why this is so used,homeland security in the US had to enact a special entry procedure for those canadians sent here for them.

Explain to me why pets in Ontario can have private life insurance,but people cant.

Explain why canadian health costs are STILL going up, despite the fact that canada spends one of the highest percentages of its gdp out of the OECD.Why is it so close to the US percentage (highest gdp % by the way) and so close to the US world health ranking(us #37,Ca #30), when government healthcare was the solution ?

Where are all the fixes that were supposed to come with socialized medicine ?

How does this still happen :
"More than 150 critically ill Canadians (circa 2008) – many with life-threatening cerebral hemorrhages – have been rushed to the United States since the spring of 2006 because they could not obtain intensive-care beds here. Before patients with bleeding in or outside the brain have been whisked through U.S. operating-room doors, some have languished for as long as eight hours in Canadian emergency wards while health-care workers scrambled to locate care."

Or this:
http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/sto ... ae&k=79546
and
http://www.komonews.com/news/10216201.html

Why do so many of your politicians end up getting care in the US?
(Stronach,Williams,Bourass,etc)
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM

User avatar
Lightbringer
General
Posts: 2973
Joined: May 23 2006
Location: Texas

Re: Great Moments in Nationalized Health Care...

#17 Post by Lightbringer » Mar 10 2010

Balthagor wrote:This didn't happen in Canada.
Well, on a different note than Tkobo's...

He wasn't saying that "Health Care is a Right" happened elsewhere. He was comparing such sentiments inside the U.S. to similar sentiments concerning owning a house, again, inside the U.S. So it may not have happened in Canada, but it is happening as we speak here in the good old USA.
only to find out that the insurance doesn't cover what they now have and no one warned them about that?
Are you talking about a hole in someone's coverage? Or being dropped? You can pass regulations that stop the second problem without forcing Universal health care on the entire populace. As for the first, how is that any different than some government health board denying you some procedure because you are too old or the budget for that type of procedure has been exceeded already?

-Light
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” -Winston Churchill

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 20236
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: Great Moments in Nationalized Health Care...

#18 Post by Balthagor » Mar 10 2010

Obviously I'd need to sit and do extensive research on these issue to really dig into a debate on this (light, I was thinking hole in coverage type) and I don't have that kind of time or energy. I'm simply not convinced that our health system is so terrible.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

User avatar
Lightbringer
General
Posts: 2973
Joined: May 23 2006
Location: Texas

Re: Great Moments in Nationalized Health Care...

#19 Post by Lightbringer » Mar 11 2010

Balthagor wrote: I'm simply not convinced that our health system is so terrible.
Actually, from what I hear, it is better than most. Personally, I would not ever say a bad word about it if I could stop having it crammed down my throat as an example of why we need to completely trash OUR health care system. I guess what I am saying is that I don't think it is horrible, I just don't think it is wonderful enough to justify the massive disruption of our economy and bloating of government power, bureaucracy, and corruption that would happen if we try to emulate it. We need some reforms concerning insurance, not a transformation of the entire system.

-Light
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” -Winston Churchill

User avatar
fool
General
Posts: 1364
Joined: Mar 28 2009

Re: Great Moments in Nationalized Health Care...

#20 Post by fool » Mar 11 2010

Are you claiming that Britain did not have a Mortgage/Banking/Financial crisis?
Which one? This one?
"All warfare is based on deception...
Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him."

Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Hullu Hevonen
General
Posts: 3602
Joined: Dec 11 2008
Location: Turunmaa/Turunseutu, Suomi
Contact:

Re: Great Moments in Nationalized Health Care...

#21 Post by Hullu Hevonen » Mar 11 2010

Why, couldn't the US gov sponsor a cheap state insurance that all people can afford (those that can't afford the standard insurence prize would get it cheaper or free(eg. small children) and that covers all aspect. The medical doctor or who ever in the health care system would not be allowed to charge more then x amount of tests on the insurance cost unless he can personally motivate to a representant of the state incurance that the patient really need it. And under the insurance the doctor would also have to write percriptions to cheaper meds, but he may motivate a more costly option to the patient.
Happy Linux user!
Links: List of Mods

User avatar
Lightbringer
General
Posts: 2973
Joined: May 23 2006
Location: Texas

Re: Great Moments in Nationalized Health Care...

#22 Post by Lightbringer » Mar 11 2010

fool wrote:
Are you claiming that Britain did not have a Mortgage/Banking/Financial crisis?
Which one? This one?
Fool wrote:Like it did here
oh wait...
Tkobo was stating that "housing is a Right" occurred in the USA. He was postulating that "health care is a Right" was going to happen in the USA. You sarcastically stated that "health care is a Right" did not happen in the UK. Since that is not what he was saying, I busted your chops with the real meaning of what he was saying. Try and follow along. :wink:

-Light
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” -Winston Churchill

User avatar
tkobo
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 11833
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: In a vast zionist plot ...RIGHT BEHIND YOU ! Oh Noes !

Re: Great Moments in Nationalized Health Care...

#23 Post by tkobo » Mar 11 2010

Think about how governments work.Now think about these:

Eminent Domain:Used to have restrictions,that such could only be enforced if the region itself was the direct beneficiary.Now it doesnt hav ethose restrictions.It can now be enforced by a local government if a private business is the direct beneficiary, and the region is shown to possibly be an indirect beneficiary

Healthcare is made a natural right:Right now its a priveldge,like driving.If you dont meet the requirements set by society,you cant do them.Now if it becomes a natural right,the government cant by current law restrict or take it away.
So again, lets say that happens.

Now lets combine the three.

You have a government that most people dont trust farther than line of sight,that can seize property from its people for another private person/s gain,that is forcing people to sign up for healthcare for themselves as well as other private people......and punishing those that dont.

So what happens when a private person needs a new liver ?And no one who has a compatable one wants to give it up ?

Well,before you answer ,look at the combined three.
The gov can seize personal property from its people,it can force health decisions on the people,and it can punish those who dont go along.

It now has all the legal ground it needs to say "We declare YOU will "DONATE" your liver to this person as we the government feel its in your,his, and our best interest you do so.

Now some of you who dont know much about the organ donation laws, and the system it works on,might scoff.For them,id suggest a short research "trip" thru such laws,federal and state,and pay particular attention to the right for others to donate your organs IF your deemed unable to make the decision.And that the governmet already can and does so in such circumstances.

The doors already open.The only question now is, how far so,will it go.
Last edited by tkobo on Mar 11 2010, edited 1 time in total.
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM

Hundane
General
Posts: 1858
Joined: Sep 11 2008

Re: Great Moments in Nationalized Health Care...

#24 Post by Hundane » Mar 11 2010

Babies being born in the U.S. ? wow what smart parents, those kids are US citizens now as well as Canadians.

One problem I have seen with the Canadian Health Care system is thier lack of doctors. Alot of Canadian doctors come to the US.

http://mdsalaries.blogspot.com/2007/04/ ... etter.html

User avatar
fool
General
Posts: 1364
Joined: Mar 28 2009

Re: Great Moments in Nationalized Health Care...

#25 Post by fool » Mar 11 2010

You have a government that most people dont trust farther than out of sight,that can seize property form its people for another private person/s gain,that is forcing people to sign up for healthcare for themselves as well as other private people
Note that I don't agree with this. It's your corporatist version of 'universal health care'.
"All warfare is based on deception...
Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him."

Sun Tzu, The Art of War

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 20236
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: Great Moments in Nationalized Health Care...

#26 Post by Balthagor » Mar 11 2010

tkobo wrote:... "We declare YOU will "DONATE" your liver to this person...
Sorry, you can't make be believe for one second that this sort of thing would happen in the US or in Canada.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

User avatar
tkobo
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 11833
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: In a vast zionist plot ...RIGHT BEHIND YOU ! Oh Noes !

Re: Great Moments in Nationalized Health Care...

#27 Post by tkobo » Mar 11 2010

Thats okay, i dont believe it will happen either,in the US at least(You guys up north ?Never can tell :PThere was after all, that whole defection system :P).AS i dont believe they will manage to force the socialization of medicine in the US.

BUT i could be wrong....

I dont believe that even IF they get their wish,that the next administration wont simply revoke it all.

BUT i could be wrong....

I do know that Obama's science Czar,one of more than a few of obama's administration that believe in eugenics ,also believes the US should have an "organ market".I do know that the US court system just spent 4 years on a divorce case in which the husband wanted either his organ back (i think it was a kidney) OR a large cash compensation for it, from his wife who he had donated his organ to during the marriage.
I do know that right now,the government can and does make organ donation decisions on "Does" that it becomes responsible for after they are dead.

Again,do i think it WILL happen in the US.Nope.But conditions change,and with them the possible outcomes.
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM

User avatar
w00tang
Major
Posts: 180
Joined: May 01 2009
Human: Yes

Re: Great Moments in Nationalized Health Care...

#28 Post by w00tang » Mar 12 2010

Call me insane, delirious (maybe from a lack of water [_]O ) or just downright stupid; but I'd prefer not to go bankrupt having to pay for extensive surgery.
NEVER go to Canberra.

User avatar
Lightbringer
General
Posts: 2973
Joined: May 23 2006
Location: Texas

Re: Great Moments in Nationalized Health Care...

#29 Post by Lightbringer » Mar 12 2010

w00tang wrote:Call me insane, delirious (maybe from a lack of water [_]O ) or just downright stupid; but I'd prefer not to go bankrupt having to pay for extensive surgery.
You would rather just die waiting in line for extensive surgery? :wink:

-Light
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” -Winston Churchill

User avatar
tkobo
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 11833
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: In a vast zionist plot ...RIGHT BEHIND YOU ! Oh Noes !

Re: Great Moments in Nationalized Health Care...

#30 Post by tkobo » Mar 12 2010

And you think going bankrupt paying for someone elses surgey would be the answer ....... OR becuase you were forced to pay for insurance you couldnt afford .....OR pay a fine becuase you used your right of self determination to say no to owning insurance... OR becuase the "new" government program performed just like the ones of the past,and went broke themselves,but not before taxing you into the poor house......

On the positive side, i hear the govs got some other bridges to sell....
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM

Post Reply

Return to “Off Topic Comments”