FREEDOM FOR THE CSA!

[CSA Partisan]

The Confederate States of America. A nation born out of rebellion against northern elitism and oppression. A nation of states' rights, personal liberty (however flawed) and, most importantly, TRADITION. This nation gave rise to legends of the battlefield and politics. Robert E. Lee, "Stonewall" Jackson, Bragg, Jefferson Davis, all names that will be never forgotten. This nation was also invaded, plundered, and burned to the ground, it's history demonized as racist and backwards.

Firstly, I'll start with the causes of the Southern war for Independence.

A major reason was slavery. While I will not defend such an institution, it was necessary, at the time, to the southern economy. The south wasn't as densely populated or industrialized as the Yankee north. The simple fact is we needed slaves to man the plantations. Without them, the south wouldn't have had any major economic staples to trade! It would simply be on big Kosovo, poor and unviable. If there is someone to blame for slavery, it is Europe and the Federal Yankee Empire. Europe started the overseas trade and the Federals failed to either stop it immediately and free the slaves before they became even more critical, or do what everyone else did: BUY THE SLAVES AND FREE THEM. To this day, the "USA" is the only country that fought over slavery.

Another is tariffs imposed by the north on the south. This is a clear sign of economic tyranny, plain and simple. Make the north richer and the southern "Rednecks" poorer.

Cultural and political differences played a lesser role, but nonetheless contributed.

Now, secession at this point wasn't illegal. It was perfectly legal. And 11 states went that route and were well within their rights, especially since they voted on the issue and the public supported their decisions. If Kosovo can democratically secede from Serbia, then it is hypocritical for the "USA" to tell us we can't leave their Empire. If Scotland can secede from the UK (which it will eventually) then it would be hypocritical for us to be forbidden from doing so over here. It was also the intention of the founding fathers to make the union a political and military ALLIANCE, not it's own nation. How it got that way is something I can't understand. Kinda like the EU, right?

The north's conduct of the war was nothing short of tyrannical. Total war. A complete lack of respect for law and order, and even proper personal conduct. A disgrace that nobody wants to confront because the north was the "good guy". Such simple labeling is far from just. William T. Sherman was the worst war criminal in North American history, burning and plundering the south like some wild animal. I wish we had won, so we could put him on trial and hang him for his offences against human conduct.

Had the secession been peaceful, emancipation would have happened anyway. External pressure (mostly from Europe) would have forced an end to slavery, much like external pressure brought an end to apartheid in South Africa. Civil rights would have also happened, due to internal and external pressure. The simple fact is that racism was institutionalized everywhere in the union, (this means the north, too) public and private. Such hate is an infectious thing, taking the souls of men and corrupting them. We are only human, after all.

Looking at the "USA" today, I find it hard to believe that the Yankee imperialists have any support anywhere. The federal government is probably the most hated entity in human history, the national debt is expanding at an accelerating and disastrous rate, the dollar is becoming worthless, illegal immigration threatens the border integrity of this nation, there's no significant military industry like what happened in WW2, civil rights are being eroded by things like the Patriot Act, and rising foreign threats and domestic unrest will eventually result in the (Justified) destruction of the Yankee Empire. Who will come to our aid in a war with Russia and China? The Europeans who rely on Russian gas imports? Who are bitterly divided over events like Kosovo? I think not. If anything, your public will demand war with the Federalist Yankee Empire, and I say this by what I see in your streets.

I would like to go on, but all this typing is tiresome, so I await your response(s)

[The Khan]

For a first response:

Get the **** out of the Internet and crawl back to your trailer park.

A major reason was slavery. While I will not defend such an institution, it was necessary, at the time, to the southern economy.

Not surprised for a white to say that. I dare any black to say the same.

[Edit by moderator:comment on forum users not in current discussion is inappropriate]

[Balthagor]

Ease up Khan, this board offers a high degree of free speech and whether we agree with CSA Partisan's comments or not he has presented them in an open post that anyone is welcome to dispute. I agree that many people will find the contents of his posts distasteful but as long as he respects the rules of the board he is welcome to participate or initiate discussions. If you'd like to dissuade him from his current beliefs, I suggest presenting short, concise arguments with supporting evidence. There is plenty of content in his post I disagree with but I do not have much time to spend on the discussion.

Currently in Canada we're having some political upheaval. For those who aren't following Canadian Politics (hey, be nice ) we have a elected minority government (less than 50% of the members but more members than any other party) that is currently at risk of being taken down by opposition parties working together. The relevance to this thread is that one of the opposition parties is being constantly referred to by the government as "separatist" (which they are for the most part, but that issue has been dormant for a while). The government criticizes the other opposition parties for "associating with separatists". I'm constantly shaking my head at this thinking if you won't talk with the separatists, how will you ever convince them they shouldn't separate and keep the country from falling apart?

If you don't confront topics that disturb your way of thinking, you'll never be challenged to think for yourself.

I hope the US manages to speak to CSA members and find a way to reconcile their differences.

[Legend]

1) I don't see the point you are trying to make in your post.
2) If I can guess at your point... you seem to have a problem with the way the world is. Do you have your own part of your world taken care of? What is the poverty rate in your city and are you doing anything to help it? Do you volunteer anywhere to make a difference?
3) Does your post attempt to do anything to benefit the lives of others?

Some food for thought.

[Miecznik]

Is your point that seweral southern states should secces from USA ?

Aside from that with all the bots scanning this forum the CIA,FBI or KFC already read this post and are patiently waiting fpr you to write next part of your post. I am waiting for the next part also (Your declaration is quite unfinished)


What i wonder about is what would happen in situation in witch single state would secces from US in light of crisis getting deeper. Would it create precedens witch other states, or group of states would follow ?

[CSA Partisan]

OK, let me start with this: this post is not intended to be racist. Whether or not you choose to accept the fact that slavery was vital to the un-industrialized, agrarian southern economy is irrelevant. The fact remains is that it was. A sudden change in the status quo (as opposed to a gradual change, such as buying the slaves and freeing them) would have been disastrous for us. I guess it's too much to ask for people to think before they post.

As for the trailer park jokes: I live in a 2 story house in a quiet suburb. My mother pulls in 30,000 USD a year. I myself work in a lawn care business and will soon move on to bigger things. Such insults are indicative of a feeble mind incapable of real debate (or even response).

If you were offended, calm the F**K down. You're wrong.

The war was fought over much more important issues than slavery, like states' rights, free trade, personal liberty, etc. Slavery was the flashpoint, but not a major cause. If you have any more insults to hurl at me, do it in a PM. Otherwise, stfu.

The only thing I seek is a free and independent nation for the Southern people. EVERY man, woman, and child. Our nation isn't perfect, but then again, we're only human.

[smaller]

...and m&ms are tasty in cake icing... Wait, LOL wut? About Russia and china, did you even know that they are on a different continent? Russia currently is not capable of a naval invasion, and china... Well their ships will break downand sink halfway.

Hahaha slavery was necessary for the... Bla bla bla... BLA! Wow your neck is redder than my countries former flag... Actually slavery was not necessary for anything. Look at czarist Russia. Serfdom was abolishedin the 1800s and it's agrarian economy survived for 100 more years, and would have survived longer if not for 2 disastrous wars which angered the populace. But if you need extra jack daniels GET YO A$$ UP AND WORK ON THE PLANTATIONS YOURSELF.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexey_Stakhanov - that's how it's doneb

[opformaster]

The war was fought over much more important issues than slavery, like states' rights, free trade, personal liberty, etc. Slavery was the flashpoint, but not a major cause.

So the slave were free to leave whenever they wanted?

[CSA Partisan]

...and m&ms are tasty in cake icing... Wait, LOL wut? About Russia and china, did you even know that they are on a different continent? Russia currently is not capable of a naval invasion, and china... Well their ships will break downand sink halfway.

Hahaha slavery was necessary for the... Bla bla bla... BLA! Wow your neck is redder than my countries former flag... Actually slavery was not necessary for anything. Look at czarist Russia. Serfdom was abolishedin the 1800s and it's agrarian economy survived for 100 more years, and would have survived longer if not for 2 disastrous wars which angered the populace. But if you need extra jack daniels GET YO A$$ UP AND WORK ON THE PLANTATIONS YOURSELF.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexey_Stakhanov - that's how it's doneb

Is it possible for anyone to convey a point with throwing insults? Insults are only made by feeble minds trying to make a point. Also, your spelling and grammar can use some work.

As for slavery, I state again that your opinion is irrelevant, the fact remains that, unfortunately, it was necessary. So why don't you go troll somewhere else?

[CSA Partisan]

The war was fought over much more important issues than slavery, like states' rights, free trade, personal liberty, etc. Slavery was the flashpoint, but not a major cause.

So the slave were free to leave whenever they wanted?

I never said my nation was perfect. But, did you know that the last slave died in Maryland in 1903? So much for the union representing liberty.

[smaller]

...and m&ms are tasty in cake icing... Wait, LOL wut? About Russia and china, did you even know that they are on a different continent? Russia currently is not capable of a naval invasion, and china... Well their ships will break downand sink halfway.

Hahaha slavery was necessary for the... Bla bla bla... BLA! Wow your neck is redder than my countries former flag... Actually slavery was not necessary for anything. Look at czarist Russia. Serfdom was abolishedin the 1800s and it's agrarian economy survived for 100 more years, and would have survived longer if not for 2 disastrous wars which angered the populace. But if you need extra jack daniels GET YO A$$ UP AND WORK ON THE PLANTATIONS YOURSELF.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexey_Stakhanov - that's how it's doneb

Is it possible for anyone to convey a point with throwing insults? Insults are only made by feeble minds trying to make a point. Also, your spelling and grammar can use some work.

As for slavery, I state again that your opinion is irrelevant, the fact remains that, unfortunately, it was necessary. So why don't you go troll somewhere else?

Troll? look at your first post and compare it to my first post in this thread, youll see who the troll is here.

when did i throw insults?? you said it not me, if you find something there offending -- thats just you. ya, i know my grammar needs work because im 17 and speak 3 languages. thats what, 2 more than youll ever learn in your entire life. And i bet i still get higher marks for english first language than you ever did/will.

My opinion is irrelvant -- haha love it. if all our opinions were irrelevant, you wouldnt be out here on a free forum spamming your racist views if you didnt care about our opinions.

You cant just pull a fact out of your ******* and say that its a fact. You need some proof and other ppl's opinion for it to be a fact. You said that your agrarian economy couldnt function without slavery and yet i gave you an example of an agrarian society that functioned and prospered without slavery, and your response is --- " ... im still right because im a redneck and youre still wrong just because i say so" nice. Dude plz give me some proof that slavery was "necessary for your economy" then ill say fine, i was wrong. Your whole thread doesnt have a point because its just your views and opinions. radical and separatist ones at that. Trundle through some other topics in these forums and youll see what other people think about separatism.

Oh and its nothing personal, its just that --- Ussr constitution of 1918 paragraph 2--

"We make it our aim to get rid of any exploitation of any human beings, to have a full division of labor, and the merciless destruction of those exploiting the workers..." (you in this case)

Pargagraph 3 --

"...the 3rd s'ezd of the soviets insists on a full isolationism policy from the barbaric politicians of the bourgeoisie civilizations, which support the well-being of said exploiters (again you) in a number of countries that enslave hundreds of millions of the working populace of Asia , Africa, South America, in colonies and other small countries"

and the most beautiful part
Paragraph 5, part 22

"The Russian Socialistic Federative Soviet Republic hereby recognizes equal rights for all its citizens independent of race, sex, culture, origin and religion, and also puts a stop to any supression of people's rights based on any of the above characteristics."

This is 20 years before hitler, 35 years before the Usa abolishes segregation, and 80 years before the end of Apartheid in South Africa, 40 years before the independence of the first colonies in Africa. Its just a pity that somewhere its all gone wrong.

Oh this all was from http://constitution.garant.ru/DOC_3888990.htm Its in russian , but thats what page translators are for.

[Legend]

I agree with smaller... CSA Partisan, your posts are harsh. You don't like insults but you are slinging them at others.

With that said, I'm still back to wondering what the point of your post is. Do you want to separate the US today? If so, are you using a time frame from before your civil war as a basis for how to draw your borders? Are there actually people today that want to separate from the UNITED States and if so, why do they want to do it today? Is it more than bringing up the past? Instead of justifying things of the past, are there ideas from today that justify the desire for separation?

[Hundane]

It would be interesting to see any state leave the United States. They would need some serious aid from somewhere to survive.

Once they left they would no longer have all the federal benefits. Federal benefits include monies for roads and other infrastructure projects like flood control ETC... Educational packages, Health care, and the list could go on.

The price of goods and commodities that transported across state lines are regulated. If no longer a state in the United States , they would see thier electricity , water, fuel, and consumer goods go sky high.

They would soon become a poor nation akin to those in Africa and Balkans.

The hillbillys off the southern states dont understand those things , they still think like they did 100 years ago.

[Balthagor]

..The hillbillys off the southern states dont understand those things...

Please avoid broad stereotypes, this thread is already trying to spiral out of control...

[Legend]

Once they left they would no longer have all the federal benefits. Federal benefits include monies for roads and other infrastructure projects like flood control ETC... Educational packages, Health care, and the list could go on.

flood control? wasn't the main problem after Katrina that the damn burst due to lack of funding from the federal government?

Maybe this could become a new in-game scenario... some southern states separate, then they get hammered by a few hurricanes and the land is used as a staging/invasion point by some other country into North America.