3D modelling

[MK4]

That`s gonna look spectacularly on the map!

Imo a US texture without the US markings would be very appropriate for the generic variant. Definitely better than making the plane in one grey tone.

[Nerei]

I can make a version without US marking sure. Most of the US versions though are just boring grey. The only aircraft that I can find that is not basically grey is these two styles


I can make them no problem and I might go for one of them for the US. Preferably it would be the top one as I want the Sukhoi PAK FA whenever I get around to it to resemble this picture and I think it might be getting too close together for two aircraft that are likely to end up on opposite sides in wars. The question though is if that desert camouflage is too specific for a generic aircraft.


Also the F-15J texture is mostly done. I still need to give it some weathering and there is probably still some tweaking to get done but for the most part it is done.

This time I remembered to crop the image

[MK4]

Most of the US versions though are just boring grey.

They`re not really boring grey. There`s a multi-tone pattern there:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Air- ... 20bV/u7C33

http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Air- ... lj8%2BRC49

I want the Sukhoi PAK FA whenever I get around to it to resemble this picture and I think it might be getting too close together for two aircraft that are likely to end up on opposite sides in wars.

For good reason. Your second picture shows the F-15C in an Agressor scheme. It is meant to look like the opposition.
http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Air- ... C9XrMX0%3D

Same thing I think, for your first colorful scheme too:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Air- ... C9XrMX0%3D

Imo you shouldn`t use either of those to represent the US version.

[Nerei]

I am not really an expert in US aircraft paint schemes. I can recognise the roundels and that is mostly it.
The challenge though with the US F-15 patterns is how visible it will be in-game. It is not really like say the Mitsubishi F-2 where it is fairly contrasting blue colours.
That might be a point where I have to stretch reality a tiny bit for the sake of being more visible but it should be easy to make that kind of adjustments.

Also while on the topic of boring uniform textures here is the still incomplete ROKAF version. I picked that one as it was fairly easy to do.
I know the F-15K is based on the E variant and as such this is not entirely accurate but I am not planning to make both a regular and Strike Eagle variant and in-game most will probably not notice.

[MK4]

If you`re not willing to change the model for the Strike Eagle version you could still give it a separate unit ID. That way while keeping the legacy F-15 model you`d be able to add a Strike Eagle texture to differentiate the two. Iirc in game we currently have the same graphics for all F-15 variants, including the E. I haven`t looked into this enough, but I`m under the impression that the Korean paintjob is pretty much like the american one so if you`re doing a texture for the F-15K you might as well add a generic one based on that so we`ll be able to differentiate between an F-15C and an F-15E (including the K) in game.

F-15K
http://www.airliners.net/photo/South-Ko ... 4uRA%3D%3D

http://www.airliners.net/photo/South-Ko ... 4uRA%3D%3D

F-15E
http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Air- ... YuPg%3D%3D

http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Air- ... IuQA%3D%3D

[Nerei]

What I mean is mainly that I do not want to make a completely new model to get minor changes into it that most people at the resolution in question will probably never notice.

I have actually already considered doing something with unit ID's although half of my reasoning would be that I can make another JASDF anniversary colour scheme. The other half is that I can make a more regular greyish F-15 Baz and a camouflaged F-15I Ra'am.

For the record yes all my top 5 (maybe even top 10) colour schemes are celebratory JASDF.

Also looking a bit more at the texture map I can possibly find the space to add a couple of external tanks so a visual distinction could be the strike/slam/thunder version having 2 wing mounted fuel tanks.
I know the regular version also has this option and the tanks are the same but it is probably the easiest way to make it easily spottable. I can possibly also adjust the canopy shape a bit but spotting that difference is much harder and I have to avoid too much texture distortion.
Going much further than that will probably require a far more extensive rework of the UV map which is generally want I want to avoid as it probably means remaking a large part of the fuselage details which can take a significant amount of time.

If I do this (which honestly now that I think about it is not that unlikely) both the ROKAF and JASDF will get both version. The ROKAF because it will basically be the same texture and the JASDF because I want to make something crazy like say this aircraft
https://img.planespotters.net/photo/528 ... 528519.jpg
I might also go with something like this
https://d2ev13g7cze5ka.cloudfront.net/a ... 1485108932
It is actually both pictures of F-15J 32-8826. The first is a JASDF 60th anniversary. The second is 204th 10th anniversary.

Yes half my challenge when doing this is going to pick my 2nd favourite JASDF texture.

Right now though my focus is on rebuilding the K2 Black Panther. I found some flaws in the model so I am redoing it to hopefully be more accurate. At least I only had it UV mapped so the loss of time is not that great.

[nick-bang]

I am not really an expert in US aircraft paint schemes. I can recognise the roundels and that is mostly it.
The challenge though with the US F-15 patterns is how visible it will be in-game. It is not really like say the Mitsubishi F-2 where it is fairly contrasting blue colours.
That might be a point where I have to stretch reality a tiny bit for the sake of being more visible but it should be easy to make that kind of adjustments.

Also while on the topic of boring uniform textures here is the still incomplete ROKAF version. I picked that one as it was fairly easy to do.
I know the F-15K is based on the E variant and as such this is not entirely accurate but I am not planning to make both a regular and Strike Eagle variant and in-game most will probably not notice.

I dont know how this discussion started.

But let me point out that USA AND many others in NATO have in fact DROPPED the multitone camouflage in favour of the uniform grey. Some specialized american planes are black, ie. the F-117 and B-2 bomber because they (only) attack at night. Same with the Apache attack helicopter.

And the A-10 retains the camouflage as it is the only dedicated ground-attack airplane in the US inventory.

[MK4]

I dont know how this discussion started.

But let me point out that USA AND many others in NATO have in fact DROPPED the multitone camouflage in favour of the uniform grey. Some specialized american planes are black, ie. the F-117 and B-2 bomber because they (only) attack at night. Same with the Apache attack helicopter.

And the A-10 retains the camouflage as it is the only dedicated ground-attack airplane in the US inventory.

The discussion you were quoting was limited to choosing a camouflage for the American/Generic F-15C (and tangentially the Strike Eagle). Having something that`s not just grey is pretty much the goal here. The game spans a long timeframe so as long as a multicoloure (albeit different shades of grey) camouflage exists I`d go for that. Even if the pattern isn`t very distinguishable in game it would still make the texture look more detailed.

That said, if by "uniform grey" you mean a single grey paint, I`m curious to see what made you say that. This F-15C picture is supposedly taken in January 2017 for example and it shows the same camo linked to above:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Air- ... 20bV/u7C33

Also, as far as I know the US F-16 are still in two(originally three iirc) different grey paints (I`m not gonna get into FS numbers here) and I can`t think of an F-16 NATO operator that has a single grey paint on their F-16. Besides, the new (in Romanian service that is) Romanian F-16 sport this camo style:
http://www.f-16.net/g3/f-16-photos/albu ... s/1603_001
Romania being the latest NATO operator of the F-16.

[Nerei]

I might not have much time to work on this for a few days so I thought I would add this one even though it is still missing some details (like say no work being done on the nacelles at all).

The edges of the propellers are in part due to the render engine filtering and with a bit of luck will not show up in-game. Also as with the helicopters how transparent these will have to be is up to how they look in-game. On some backgrounds they are practically invisible.

I am specifically going with older colouring schemes as the JMSDF abandoned the 2 coloured fuselage for a uniform grey and removed all tail art in the early 2000's.

Likewise the US version when I get around to that (which I hope to have for the next release but no promises) will feature an older pattern.

As for US patterns I have no problem making both a completely grey and a 2 tone grey. It will pretty much be turning off a layer and maybe doing a bit of colour balancing. I can try and experiment with it but again I might not have anything for a few days.

Edit: For the record I like that Romanian F-16 camouflage pattern. If I end up doing a F-16 at some point I might do that as the default.

[nick-bang]

I dont know how this discussion started.

But let me point out that USA AND many others in NATO have in fact DROPPED the multitone camouflage in favour of the uniform grey. Some specialized american planes are black, ie. the F-117 and B-2 bomber because they (only) attack at night. Same with the Apache attack helicopter.

And the A-10 retains the camouflage as it is the only dedicated ground-attack airplane in the US inventory.

The discussion you were quoting was limited to choosing a camouflage for the American/Generic F-15C (and tangentially the Strike Eagle). Having something that`s not just grey is pretty much the goal here. The game spans a long timeframe so as long as a multicoloure (albeit different shades of grey) camouflage exists I`d go for that. Even if the pattern isn`t very distinguishable in game it would still make the texture look more detailed.

That said, if by "uniform grey" you mean a single grey paint, I`m curious to see what made you say that. This F-15C picture is supposedly taken in January 2017 for example and it shows the same camo linked to above:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Air- ... 20bV/u7C33

Also, as far as I know the US F-16 are still in two(originally three iirc) different grey paints (I`m not gonna get into FS numbers here) and I can`t think of an F-16 NATO operator that has a single grey paint on their F-16. Besides, the new (in Romanian service that is) Romanian F-16 sport this camo style:
http://www.f-16.net/g3/f-16-photos/albu ... s/1603_001
Romania being the latest NATO operator of the F-16.

Well... ALL american and many if not most NATO airplanes have the single Grey paintscheme I described. That is a fact.
Of course what I am talking about is Combat planes. It was the same choice that eliminated all decals with bright colours, including roundels and warning label. Hence the plane from the 125. Fighter wing of the Florida National Giuard, might be because its stated misson is to defend North america only? During the Cold war many bombers were painted in flash white if they had a nuclear mission, but otherwise they retained the late WW2 paintschemes of grey/blue bellies and ground camouflage on top.

http://aviation.stackexchange.com/quest ... vil-planes

As for the European F16 then its true that many of them are 2 tone grey.

[MK4]

Well... ALL american and many if not most NATO airplanes have the single Grey paintscheme I described.

Ok, but can you link to a picture of an American F-15 Eagle or an F-16 that is painted in a single grey colour? I am honestly not aware of any.

[nick-bang]

Well... ALL american and many if not most NATO airplanes have the single Grey paintscheme I described.

Ok, but can you link to a picture of an American F-15 Eagle or an F-16 that is painted in a single grey colour? I am honestly not aware of any.

SERIOUSLY ?

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-military- ... inted-grey
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... lours.html
http://wwiisquadronpatches.com/National ... craft.html
https://www.airforcetimes.com/articles/ ... t-comeback
http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1017993
http://forum.keypublishing.com/archive/ ... 39338.html
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-smoked ... ghter-jets

Ok, then. Let me just state that all american airplanes have been in the one-tone greyscheme for a number of years. Where even their markings and decals were made grey. In fact thsi is the standard called "USAF air superiority gray color scheme"
That You cant find them does not make it any less true.

F-14
http://cdn.playbuzz.com/cdn/6297722e-98 ... 8d0c74.jpg
https://theaviationist.com/wp-content/u ... -VF-24.jpg
https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/20 ... info&w=920
http://tf3dm.com/imgd/l20842-grumman-f- ... -33918.jpg
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com ... 1KOHuL.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RiYUBBUqSRs/maxresdefault.jpg

F-15
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/CsHQ4zOnPL0/maxresdefault.jpg
http://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingd ... 80x720.jpg
http://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingd ... mobile.png
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... lakenh.jpg
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/ima ... wee9pn.jpg

F-16
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/ ... 896326.jpg
https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/shrinkn ... 1a74ae.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 6_USAF.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... rawing.svg

F-18
http://www.aircraftrecognition.co.uk/im ... 24x768.jpg
http://wallpapersafari.com/w/hPor9V/
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/u-3bbnwOlWw/hqdefault.jpg
http://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingd ... 80x720.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OFGhJbM5sXE/maxresdefault.jpg

F-22
http://www.f-16.net/g3/var/resizes/f-22 ... 1460664175

F-35
https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/ ... 0x651.jpeg

Do I need to go on ?

[MK4]

All the F-16 you`ve linked to are in the standard two tones of grey(FS 36270 overall and FS 36118 on top), except for the last one which is not a photo, but a "drawing" as its names suggest. This guide on the F-16 explains, among other things, the paint schemes of the aircraft (the F-16 COLORS section):
http://zone-five.net/showthread.php?t=231
All the F-15 photos you`ve linked to are actually the Strike Eagle (i.e. F-15E), not the Eagle I asked for, with the exception of the second from the bottom which is an F-15C and even though it`s a grainy picture it still shows the camouflage pattern that I`ve linked to above.

The F-22 btw also has a camo pattern. It`s just that with dirt and wear, grainy picture and an untrained eye, these grey on grey schemes aren`t always noticeable. This one will make it obvious:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Air- ... pp2766Vi2S


EDIT:
Nerei, sorry, I`ve managed to miss your post! Great to see you`re still able to work on this!

As for US patterns I have no problem making both a completely grey and a 2 tone grey. It will pretty much be turning off a layer and maybe doing a bit of colour balancing.

As I`ve said, I prefer to see a pattern in those cases where there actually is one available. Even though these units will be small in game, the extra detail will add to the visual impression even if not many people will notice the exact contours of those darker grey on lighter grey forms.

Edit: For the record I like that Romanian F-16 camouflage pattern. If I end up doing a F-16 at some point I might do that as the default.

Yeah, it certainly looks different in the F-16 group. These show the pattern on the wings too (no national markings because they were in Portugal, prior to delivery):
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Portugal ... IxCg%3D%3D
http://www.rumaniamilitary.ro/wp-conten ... 0612_n.jpg
The camo kinda resembles that of the modernized MiG-21 LanceR C:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Romania- ... y0bV/tcDGA
https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5969B15D
Being so colourful (as much as you can get with modern day fighters) I`d love to have something like this in game, but such camo style might not be representative for many other nations. Using it for a MLU version might be an idea so that it differs from the non-modernized A version and the newer C version. In any case, don`t mind me, I just like to talk on the subject. I realize you might not actually make an F-16.

[nick-bang]

All american and most NATO planes who have air-to-air role have a grey colour scheme. Introduced after the cold war, thats the facts.

http://hangar1.net/foto2004/20041104_eb ... 01_jvb.jpg
http://www.aircraftrecognition.co.uk/im ... C-542.JPEG
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LojZ8tfBRIc/T ... /img02.jpg
http://media.defenceindustrydaily.com/i ... IIs_lg.jpg
http://cdn.airplane-pictures.net/images ... 330972.jpg

"For an untrained eye" what are your qualifications exactly?

F-16s have dual role which is why they have the two-tone grey usually.

https://www.quora.com/Why-arent-fighter ... in-the-sky

Paint them pink if you want.
But that is - at least for most NATO countries - totally uncorrect.

You CAN NOT judge NATO countries by the way for instance IDF fighters are painted.

But a FAR better argument for not using many-coloured schemes is their visibility or lack thereof ingame like Nerei points out. And CLEARLY a accurate two-tone camouflage will NOT be visible ingame.

But meh... dont care end of story for me.

[MK4]

I don`t know why you got so worked up about it. I doubt the Americans painted their F-16s, F-15Cs and others in more than one shade of grey just to annoy PC gamers and certainly I had nothing to do with their decision. Of course, if NATO would have painted all their fighters in a single grey paint it would have saved modellers a fortune in hobby paint money (would have bankrupted Humbrol, Vallejo and the like) and would have made aircraft modelling a much easier - if somewhat boring - hobby. Joke aside, just because something has "grey" in its description it doesn`t mean it involves a single grey paint. You can see a fun discussion (with photos of real aircraft and models) where some modellers are trying to distinguish between the Mod Eagle scheme and the Compass Ghost grey scheme:
http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/mil ... ost1405674
Both relevant to the F-15. Even though it`s very bright, the Japanese F-15 you`ve linked to in your last post clearly shows that camo pattern. The Rafale on the other hand has never been into question here, but incidentally, it too is a multirole fighter like the modern F-16, F/A-18 etc. so, evidently, while there`s an actual pattern on some aircraft, there`s definitely not a universal pattern in regards to how modern fighters are painted depending on their class.