FIRST BETA RELEASE Triumph of the Kaiser mod

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JollyGoodBork
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Re: FIRST BETA RELEASE Triumph of the Kaiser mod

#181 Post by JollyGoodBork » May 17 2016

I'm not sure... The big thing about the US in ww1 was their help with resources, supplying the entente.

But of course, a central power Mexico could make US think twice about actually joining the war.
But I am really a bit put off by this idea. The US would steamroll Mexico.
The germans DID propose an alliance with mexico which was leaked;
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmermann_Telegram.

So there you got it. The americans prevented Mexico from joining the central powers, and if they did, they would not be as industrially important as the US, and would probably just lose a second war to the americans.

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Re: FIRST BETA RELEASE Triumph of the Kaiser mod

#182 Post by Doug3232 » May 17 2016

Cdiplayer wrote:
Doug3232 wrote:Hey, love that you are working on this idea, here is an idea, what if Porfirio Diaz won the revolution in Mexico by 1912, and joined the war in 1916 in Germanies side, bacicly playing america's role but in germany's side, that would also mean America won't join the war, because of fear of a Mexican invasion, as Porfiros army was one of the most advanced in the world(first semi automatic rifle). So by 1936, mexico would be in cool relations with the axis, very far right, and Diaz wold be dead, but someone from his military would be the dictator. I would realy apreciate it if you aded this, amd thank you very much for creating this mod, tell me if you need anything
Interesting idea. How big was his army? I think it would only really make a difference if it was similar in size to the American army at the time.
It was relatively small in 1900, but it would have likely grown after the revolution, and would have experience, and it doesn't have to fulfil america's role, just force the allies to negotiate, and btw, i think that by 1936, his nefew(i think it was Felix dias) would be president

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Re: FIRST BETA RELEASE Triumph of the Kaiser mod

#183 Post by Doug3232 » May 17 2016

JollyGoodBork wrote:I'm not sure... The big thing about the US in ww1 was their help with resources, supplying the entente.

But of course, a central power Mexico could make US think twice about actually joining the war.
But I am really a bit put off by this idea. The US would steamroll Mexico.
The germans DID propose an alliance with mexico which was leaked;
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmermann_Telegram.

So there you got it. The americans prevented Mexico from joining the central powers, and if they did, they would not be as industrially important as the US, and would probably just lose a second war to the americans.
That was after Porfirio's exile, if he had remained presidenr by ww1, he would have joined at about the same time america did, after huge military growth, and he was friends with a lot of european monarks including the Kaiser
Last edited by Doug3232 on May 17 2016, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FIRST BETA RELEASE Triumph of the Kaiser mod

#184 Post by Nerei » May 19 2016

Before I say anything else I just want to say that this looks like an interesting scenario and I am looking forward to giving it a try once I have more time.

To be fair Mexico joining the Central powers would be quite a bad thing for Germany. If anything it would likely drag the US fully into the war which is just about the worst thing that could happen and Mexico has a snowballs chance in hell of containing the US.


I have not read the entirety of this thread so this might have been brough up but anyway. For the central powers to stand much of a chance the US "needs" to not be too involved. Their manpower reserve and industrial output is way too much for the central powers to handle. Especially when they also have to handle the rest of the Entente and German resource shipping being hindered by Royal Navy.


Honestly Mexico would not make much of a difference. Lacking any kind of proper fleet they would be completely isolated from Germany and unable to aid them in any way. Germanys Kaiserliche Marine being boxed in by Grand Fleet also means it cannot aid Mexico leaving them at the mercy of the US navy and Royal Navy. Even if Germany was to break the blockade they probably would not leave their north sea coast undefended to sail their fleet across the atlantic.
Mexico lacking a fleet also means the US navy can act with impunity across the caribbean and pacific. They can land soldiers anywhere from Baha to Yucatan without opposition. Mexico would have to station troops across the country to counter this. That is a severe limitation on their ability to deploy soldiers to the US border.

Mexico might have experienced soldiers after a civil war. That is good until they die at the frontline. The superior number of american military hardware would bring that about fairly quickly. As an example Japan had good pilots from their Chinese campaign. A large portion died at Midway and Japan never managed to replace them. Mexico would face a similar scenario.

The US very much would respond to a Mexican military buildup. Certain more Hawkish senators where willing to enter a dreadnought arms race with Japan with the promise of outbuilding them 3 to 1. Japan is about 9000km away from mainland US. Mexico is right across the border. They would have just as high if not a higher priority.
Mexico could stand a chance if they could get enough of an initial military lead to occupy the US heartlands and disrupt their industry but that is assuming the US politicians are complete morons. On this point at least they are not.

Consider that the US have historically regarded central america as their personal backyard and very much want to have a say in what is going on. Any other nation trying to build a large amy would affect this balance.
They also have taken aggressive action before.
Amongst other consider they attacked Mexico in 1914 at Veracruz over an incorrectly delivered apology to a minor incident. A military buildup might make them make a preemptive strike which would lead to an interesting scenario but it would still lead to a Mexican defeat.
The US would also be far more capable of a military buildup being the largest economy on the planet. They could outbuild Mexico 5 to 1 which is more than enough to just contain if not outright defeat them and still have good surplus with which to aid the Entente in Europe.

Not saying they might not join the Central powers. They might be as confident/arrogant as Japan was in 1941. It will go the same way though. It could lead to an interesting scenario. Imagine what a US occupation of part of Mexico would do to them diplomatically or a Mexican state collapse creating a fertile breeding ground for communism. Both would have a far greater effect the US more than a border war which they should have no problem winning.
The main problem is it would likely drag the US into the war and you would have to find a way to keep them from drowning Germany in military equipment like they did to both them and Japan during world war 2.

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Re: FIRST BETA RELEASE Triumph of the Kaiser mod

#185 Post by Doug3232 » May 19 2016

I never mentioned a war with america, Porfiro was extremely far right, and handed out a lot of money and industry to america, he was very good friends with the US(they sent troops to fight along him in the revolution), but he was much better friends with the kaiser. And mexico actually did have dredonoughts, and many other ships, they also built tanks before america did. And maybe they could just distract britain by attacking belize, taking their oil industry in the carabean, and invading other british islands, he maybe even could have sent support to Maximilian Von Spree. Again, this just has to make the US think 2 times, as they benefited a lot from porfirio and huerta being in power(as his enemies where also their enemies in the case of Pancho Villa.

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Re: FIRST BETA RELEASE Triumph of the Kaiser mod

#186 Post by Nerei » May 19 2016

Just to preface this post as I am starting to sound like a gushing american patriot I would like to stress that I am not an american citizen nor do I live in the United States.

Also sorry for my posts being a bit long, I tend to get carried away.

You mentioned Mexico joining the Central powers in 1916 and the US "not" joining the Entente due to a fear of a Mexican invasion. You also mentioned them taking americas role.
These is the main things I question. I seriously doubt the US would be intimidated and I know Mexico would not have the economic strength to do much especially if the US gets angry.
That is what any such actions will do. It will anger the US and make them more likely to join the war which if anything would be on the side of the Entente.
I am also questioning the US "not" answering a Mexican military buildup with one of their own and with their industrial power they will quickly overtake "any" lead Mexico might have.
Once the US starts manufacturing Mexico loses "any" intimidation factor and would have to be quite careful as it now has the largest economy in the world aligned against it. Basically one wrong move and they are dead.


Mexico going to a conquest spree in the Caribean would likely to lead to a US intervention as would stationing an army on the border. Again they went to war over a letter and conducted an amphibious landing due to an improperly delivered apology.
As for Porfirio being a US ally that could quickly change. Consider that Saddam Hussein was basically a US ally and received significant aid during the Iran-Iraq war. 2 Years later he was the enemy during the gulf war.
Also if he is an ally his intimidation factor is quite a bit lower but even then a massive Mexican buildup would make the US do the same.


You may not have mentioned going to war with the US but your suggested actions are extremely likely to lead to one. What you are suggestion is to bully the US and/or britain with Mexico.
Basically you want to bully some of the strongest countries in the world. Countries that will push back hard and likely together if you try anything and you want to do it with a country that is not exactly a military or economic powerhouse and on top of it said country has just gone through a civil war (even if we assume it is much shorter).


Ultimately anything that can be seen as intimidation towards the US would lead to a military buildup which is just about the last you want. A 1913 full US mobilization would be a horrible situation for the central powers as it would likely lead to a fully prepared US entering the war. Ideally if the US enters the war it should be as late as possible with the US having as little preparation as possible. That way the war can end before the US can get to steamrolling the central powers.

Mexico could serve this role but it would very much be to Mexicos detriment.


Mexico building tanks before the US is interesting. I did not know that. The question however is how many and how reliably where they? When where they put into service? Tanks did not enter service until well into the great war so Mexico is very unlikely to have enough to make any difference at the start of say a 1916 war considering the first tanks to enter british service was early 1916. You also want to get a bit later than the great war if you want to use them for more then just making a push on the frontline which a push to the american heartland with tanks would require.


As for the Mexican navy and dreadnoughts would you mind pointing me towards sources? I cannot find anything anywhere and I am honestly quite curious. The closest I can get is references to the New Mexico class which is not exactly Mexican. I cannot even find Mexico when I look up navies that bought ships from US or british yards and I doubt they had shipyards to build them themselves.

Ultimately though by 1916 the US navy was a world class navy only really matched by the Kaiserliche Marine and Royal Navy. Mexico would have very low chance of controlling the seas against either the US or UK.
Assuming the US felt threatened (which again I doubt they would) they would just do what they threatened to do with Japan which is massively outbuild them and Mexico would not be able to do anything about it except watch. Japan could not with their significantly stronger economy and from what I remember at the peak the Nippon Kaigun build programs received a staggering 1/3 of the state budget.

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Re: FIRST BETA RELEASE Triumph of the Kaiser mod

#187 Post by Doug3232 » May 19 2016

Hey, i tried very hard to find the source of my information, as i had already seen 2 porfiriato dreadnoughts, but forgot where, and the best i could find is a picture, i also read that Mexico had 5 military shipyards, and the Veracruz intervention was during the civil war, the United States was loosing fast, as they had invested a lot in Porfiro's Mexico, and they had also been fighting Pancho Villa, and they were now just looking for an escuse to send a warning. The US would probably have tried to keep good relations with Porfiro, as he was their preference of a mexican goverment(far right, and open to free trade), and they wouldn't have done a lot about the military buildup, since in the 1880s and 90s, his army was about the size of the US army, he decreased it's size because he prefered a more professional army with semi automatic rifles, and good training. Btw when Juarez became president in the 1850s(right after the mexican american war) he had a bigger army than the US.
The US, wouldn't intervene in a military buildup of mexico. And britain would be spread thin, they probably woudnt handle mexico, specialy if other latin american nations like Chile, who was also alligned with Porfirio and the Kaiser, sent help and support (like an invasion of the Falklands at the same time, which would also save the german pacific fleet) and mexico did manage to somehow break the embargo and send semi auto rifles to Germany in ww1, i think they could do the same with troops. And btw, if Porfirio was known by something it's industry, mexico was an industrial power at the time, the biggest in latin america, it even neared american industry levels.
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Re: FIRST BETA RELEASE Triumph of the Kaiser mod

#188 Post by Nerei » May 22 2016

Okay long post sorry about that. I wrote a TL;DR just in case.

TL;DR
The ship is the pre-dreadnought coastal defence ship Anahuac. It was the Brazilian ship Marshal Deodoro until 1924. Only other noteworthy ships are 3 unprotected cruisers. The lists I found these on are detailed enough to give all the names of the trawlers Mexico militarised in 1917.


The ability to build battleships was a major economic investment and only something wealthy nations with a good industrial base could do. Less industrially strong nations bought their dreadnoughts from the nations with larger economies and more established shipbuilding facilities.

I managed to piece together a list of (inflation corrected) GDP numbers from the early 20th century (these will wary a bit depending on source, year collected and year inflation corrected for but I most sources I can find paint the same picture). All numbers are billions.
Here are some exerts:
Gemany: 254
Austria-Hungary: 25
Mexico: 23
UK: 240
Japan: 77
France: 167
US: 506.
That gives a US economy more than 20 times larger than that of Mexico.
Note how our 3 central powers economies combined (Mexico is included here) are only around 60% of that of the US. That is the true monstrous strength of the United States. Their economic superiority. This is not even including the bad resource situation the Central powers are in being reliant on sending their merchant fleet through UK waters.
The US population of 1900 is also roughly 6 times larger than that of Mexico.

The size of a nations standing army is not necessarily an indicator of their potential military strength. A nation intending to rely more on a drafted or volunteer army would not keep a large number in service during peacetime. That is good economic sense as it would neither drain the state treasury nor would it disrupt the economy as much.
Thus just using the number of active servicemen is a fairly bad metric for a nations fighting potential.


The US fought Saddam Hussein 2 years after supporting him in the Iraq-Iran war. I would argue it is fair to assume do the same might happen to Porfirio had he started going on a conquest spree.
/TL;DR

______________________

First off that ship is the Anahuac.
It is part of a 2 ship class built in France armed with 2x 234mm, 4x 120mm and some 57mm guns of British manufacture.
It is a 3200 tonne pre-dreadnought coastal battleship.
That is a fancy way of saying it is a small armoured cruiser with thicker armour. This is at the cost of a quite low top speed.

The problem is that this ship was not Mexican at this time. It was Brazilian. It was comissioned in 1900 as the Marshal Deodoro but sold to Mexico in 1924. Her sister was the Marshal Floriano.

There is pretty much nothing originally from Mexico in that ship which actually makes sense as most nations bought their ships in Europe (and to some extend the US).

Okay the ship is not really relevant but lets stick with it for now, if for no other reason that to compare it to what it would face if pitted against say the US or Royal Navy.

A similar era pre-dreadnought (say the British Formidable class) was just over 4 times as heavy, around 3 knots faster and carried 4x 305mm and 12x 152mm guns. The armouring was somewhat similar though.
A 1916 dreadnought battleship like say the Japanese Fusō class was around 9 times as heavy, 8 knots faster and carried 12x 356mm, 16x 152mm and some lighter guns. Again however the armour is not that much thicker. Dreadnought configurations varied a bit from nation to nation but as a whole they are just so much stronger vessels that a battle between them would not even be interesting. As a whole it would be the same with pre-dreadnoughts.


So to summarise this is not a dreadnought. By most standards it is not a true late 19th or early 20th century battleship either (it is a slow more heavily protected small armoured cruiser) and as mentioned at this time it was not even Mexican but Brazilian.

The ships I can find listed is the Porfirio Díaz. An 1890's unprotected cruiser and the basically armed merchant ships Vincente Guerrero and Progresso. On top of that I can only find 8 gunboats (something like 5 of which where lost during the civil war but we can assume they survived). They are however fairly old with some of them being a staggering 40 years old.
All of these ships are pretty much horribly obsolete come the great war and would lose to pretty much any pre-dreadnought battleship barring some miracle.
I have also found some vague mentioning of armed merchant ships commissioned in the 1890's but that would most likely be more slow, unarmoured ships with 50-150mm guns. Basically ships of no consequences to a pre-dreadnought let alone a ship like the Fusō.

These ships would probably be quite challenged if faced off against a good armoured.

Yes I finally found a site dedicated to amongst other things the Mexican Navy thanks to that picture. The rest of the Mexican ships listed there tends to be world war 2 or later unless you want say armed trawlers.
The site goes to the point where I can find all 8 gunboats listed by name.
They do not mention any proper dreadnought or pre-dreanought battleships though which I would assume would be the first added to such lists. I will take that as Mexico actually not fielding dreadnoughts or any other true battleships. The Anahuac is the closest there is and it is mid 1920's.

This site is a nice way to quickly look over what ships a nation would have had at the time.


Could they built something then? Probably not by the time we are dealing with being basically just 4 years (and again the country has gone through a civil war even if brief that will have an effect).
I will also argue they lacked dreadnought building expertise meaning they would likely turn to say European yards (like pretty much everyone else in the world. Again note the Anahuac was built in France) for ships as pretty much all heavy shipbuilding was done there or in US yards. Later Japan also builds some ships but that is too late to matter.

If they ordered ships in France or Britain these would very likely be taken over by their respective navies by 1914 (like it happened to the Chilean Super Dreadnought Almirante Latorre that was built by Britain).
If Germany built them they would not be able to deliver at all given the North Sea blockade. They most likely would not do that anyway as Hochseeflotte would need every ship possible to face off against Grand Fleet. The best scenario in this case pretty much is they get them after the war which at this point kinda does not matter.


Building Dreadnoughts was quite demanding both industrially and economically which is why only the larger European powers as well as the US and Japan did this. Powers like the Ottoman Empire bought their ships simply due to the demands building such ships put on the industry of a country.

Consider that Japan only barely managed to "start" building dreadnought battleships by this time and they had aggressively pursued industrialisation with an emphasis on the navy pretty much since shortly after the Boshin war of the late 1860's. They also had a significantly larger economy to work with. Their first warship the Hiei was laid down late 1911.


My conclusion at least is that Mexico did not have a navy that posed any danger to the Entente. It would not be able to field one by 1916 either even in a very optimistic alternate history scenario.
It certainly would require a massive rewrite of the Mexican history to get them that fleet. I am not even sure if they started out aggressively industrialising at the same time as Japan that they could start building dreadnoughts by 1912 as Japan started out with a far stronger economic base. If they where to buy them they probably should place the order no later than 1910 just to ensure the ships could be properly completed and delivered before the start of the war. This scenario would only give them a few ships though to face off against the US Navy that entered 1914 with somewhere around 23 pre-dreadnought and 10 dreadnought battleships.
Again keep in mind this is without proper mobilisation. Say the destroyer building of 1917 to 1920 that adds around 250 Wickers and Clemson destroyers to the US navy give a better picture of that. This is on top of them laying down 2 Tennessee and 4 Colorado class battleships and a whole lot of other ships.


On to industry

Mexican industrial power nearing US levels?! You do realise that would put them well "above" the "entire" british empire or the German empire. They would be the second largest economy in the world by a decent margin! They would be far ahead of countries like Qing China (that had a population somewhere around 40-50 times larger) or the Empire of Japan!
The Qing China economy though is pre-industrialised and thus not easy to mobilise but the others are industrialised countries.
Sorry but no, just no.

I will happily give you that they had a good economy for a latin American country but when pitted against the US or any other great world power that is not saying that much.

here are some roughly 1900 GDP numbers (there is a link a bit longer down with 1913 numbers). I prioritise 1900 due to that giving the nations time to use their economy to mobilise. 1913 would not really do that.
These are:
Brazil: 10.3
Gemany: 254.7
UK: 240.1
Japan: 76.6
France 167.3
Italy: 71.6
Mexico: 23.3
US: 506.0
Austria-Hungary: 25.3
The numbers are billions with most at least in 2005 USD. Yes it is a pieced together list and thus there might be variations due to dates and calculations used.
(Just to avoid a number argument before inflation adjustment it is around 20-22 billion for the US and somewhere around 1 billion for Mexico)

You can also take a look at the Madison world GDP list which can be found in this wikipedia article. The numbers are not entirely the same but they are close enough to serve as collaboration.

The interesting part is that in the early 1800 the US is only 2-3 times large but when industrialisation takes off in the mid 1800's the US and the European powers have a massive growth. Before the industrialization GDP is closely tied to population and thus an 1800 list would be dominated by Qing China.

Another interesting point is that Brazil has a smaller economy but found the capital to buy warships in Europe so there certainly is potential for that (it just never happened). It should however be stressed that the combined South american fleets (which basically is to say Argentina, Brazil and Chile) would stand little chance against the full strength of the US Navy of 1916.

Lets add population also. Wikipeida has a nice article about population numbers in 1900. Here are some exerts:
UK (british isles only): 38 (total British empire is around 280)
France: 38
Italy: 32
Germany: 56
Austria-Hungary: 51
Mexico: 12
Ottoman Empire: 31
US: 76
All numbers are million

These lists also show why you do not want a fully committed US to join the war if at all possible (which a full on arms race in 1912 would trigger). Their economy is larger than that of the "entire" central powers combined by a wide margin (I cannot find listings for the Ottoman empire but they do not make up the difference). Combined with France and the UK the odds will be stacked incredibly high against the Central powers.
Their population also allows for a large number of draftees which combined with their economy makes for a formidable force.

Completely ignoring the US the fight is much more even with the Central powers having more manpower but lacking behind in GDP. Again this is why you want to avoid dragging the US into the war "not" try and intimidate them to not join as you do not have "any" good tools to do that against the by far largest economy in the world. A country I might add that also has the largest western population.


We can also look at economy from a maritime perspective.

Battleships where a prestige item and thus actually an okay-ish metric. With Porfirio being a right wing president (in officer for a good part of the last 30 years) building something to show off to the world and demonstrate the might of the nation would be a natural move.
What we have are some unarmoured cruisers which is to basically say nothing.
Being able to build your own ships is also a good measurement of your industrial strength. Again refer to Japan aggressively building up their industry for more than 40(!) years to reach this point. A buildup with a heavy emphasis on the Nippon Kaigun I might add.
I can find pretty much nothing large built by Mexico itself which again does not lend itself well to the "premiere world industrial power" status.

The nations I can find that built their own dreadnought battleships is: UK, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and the United States. Large economies built their own ships. Smaller do not though they might buy some.
Again this does support the numbers above.


For the record it is not like no other nation in the Americas had dreadnoughts. Both Argentina and Brazil had a few and as mentioned Chile ordered two also although only one was delivered after the war (the other ended up as the aircraft carrier Eagle).
These nations where actually locked in a dreadnought arms race of their own. Any of them joining the Central powers would most likely just weaken their own positions by fighting the Entente. The others would even have a good argument for joining the Entente as their competitor would then be open for attack potentially with some support while anyone joining the Central powers you would likely be on their own.

If say Argentina joined the Central powers I would expect there to be a good chance of both Chile and Brazil joining the Entente. Brazil actually did this in 1917 anyway.
Argentina from what I remember also made favourable trade deals with the Entente.


Drafting soldiers and giving them a gun is fairly inexpensive and thus far easier to do. It is not a good measurement of true full industrialisation as it would be defined in the early 20th century. Napoleon did it, Rome did it. Heck war ravaged Japan during the Sengoku era did it.
Building battleships take years and require large specialised facilities which limits the number you can build at any given on top of a huge dedication of resources and large technical expertise.
Infantry on the other hand can be drafted quite quickly in comparison and thus a nation might chose "not" to have a large standing army at a given time simply to save money. Guns can also both be manufactured far faster than battleships and tend to store better than 30.0000 tonne colossi.

Yes if you want a well trained professional army you need to have people in service but that is not the only way to do things. A nation relying mainly on draftees is far better off "not" having many people drafted in times of peace. It is easier on the state budget and interferes less with the economy. Given that you do not intend to train them for 5 years before a war having the drafted would just waste money.

However if a standing army is our metric then Firebombed, war ravaged Japan in August 1945 is quite well off. They literally had millions under arms on the mainland alone (they probably take the prize as most militarised country in modern history).


Porfirio might have been into industry but that does not make the country a world economic power. I can find absolutely no evidence to support this and everything I can find (like both actual numbers and the navy) point in another direction. With him being right wing I very much expect him to be in line with the "the battleship is the symbol and pride of our nation" line of thought. I would at the very least expect an even remotely decent navy but there basically is nothing. All this to me points towards Mexico not having the economy to build ships and other factors tying up enough capital to prevent them from buying any in say Europe.
Again without changing at least 50 years of history quite drastically I cannot see Mexico being an economic force the US needs to really consider.



I cannot stress enough that the US investing something in someone does not mean they will not act against them if they feel that better serve their interests. They invested billions in Saddams fight against Iran yet went to war with him only a few years later as that served their interests in the middle east far better.
Actually here there are some good parallels and if anything I would use this as an example of an agressive expanding Mexico not being safe.
In such a scenario I very much could see Porfirio taking the role Saddam of the early 20th century in US Mexican relations.
That the US was not willing to commit more of their (as proven above) significantly larger strength to keeping him in power might also be showing.

Again sorry for the long post.

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Re: FIRST BETA RELEASE Triumph of the Kaiser mod

#189 Post by Doug3232 » May 22 2016

Ok, i was pretty sure i saw two mexican navy dredonoughts, but my source could have been wrong and they may have just been cruisers. However, there is another allied weakness in mexico, the biggest(or at least the second biggest) british oil company only operated in mexico, If porfiro had nationalized that, it would likely have caused an oil shortage in britain at least for a little time. Also, lets supose that during the revolution, Pancho Villa raids colombus, New Mexico as he did in real life, and forces the US to send an army of 2,000 to mexico, in real life, they failed and return to america, but if Porfiroo helps them, and both thr US and Mexico killed Villa, i believe bonds between the US and Mexico would be good, the US also owned all the mexican oil companies eccept a few british and dutch ones, so more reasons not to invade Mexico, and it is completely possible for Porfirio to raise an army of 100,000 men, he just didn't need it during his presidency. Also i completely agree with you, the US didn't have to fear Mexico, and their industry was much greater, what i ment was in ratio to sise. But however, if the US declared war in mexico, i see it very difficult for them to reach Mexico city, and even if this scenaruo does happen, that would also keep the US out of the war, until the central powers win, and Germany sends relief to mexico, in the form of dreadonoughts, airships, tanks, and left over war equipment. I believe both scenarios could work and by the way, Diaz had been in power since 1876, that's almost 40 years of industrialization by 1914, wich gives him a lot of industrial capabilities. Here are a few photos of the army in 1910, so you get an idea. Notice how their uniforms are similar to the german ones, their rifles are modern and semiautomatic, and the machine gun foto is not during the porfiriato, it's during Huerta's presidency during the civil war, but he was in Porfirio's military (he is the man in the officers uniform) and was likely going to be apointed president when porfirio died.
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Re: FIRST BETA RELEASE Triumph of the Kaiser mod

#190 Post by Doug3232 » May 22 2016

Mexican army with german like uniforms
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Re: FIRST BETA RELEASE Triumph of the Kaiser mod

#191 Post by Doug3232 » May 22 2016

Mondragon fusil Porfirio Diaz semi automatic rifles, Huerta, and Machinegun possition
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Doug3232
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Re: FIRST BETA RELEASE Triumph of the Kaiser mod

#192 Post by Doug3232 » May 22 2016

The machine gun possition
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Cdiplayer
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Re: FIRST BETA RELEASE Triumph of the Kaiser mod

#193 Post by Cdiplayer » May 23 2016

Alright everyone, I figure it is about time for an update! Due to all the complaints I've received regarding Vichy I have decided to compromise. The French State will remain as is till the dictator Petain dies in the late 40s. His successor will be a young firebrand and devoted nationalist who will change the name of the country to the "Occitan Social Republic" and change the flag to the Occitania one posted earlier in this thread. After a brief military buildup the new dictator will launch a war against France in the 50s to liberate west Occitania. What happens next will be up to the player/ai. Also, I want thoughts on decolonization, including when Manchukuo should get independence from Japan and what should happen afterwards.

Kristijonas
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Re: FIRST BETA RELEASE Triumph of the Kaiser mod

#194 Post by Kristijonas » May 23 2016

Looks interesting. Where could I download the mod?

Cdiplayer
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Re: FIRST BETA RELEASE Triumph of the Kaiser mod

#195 Post by Cdiplayer » May 23 2016

Kristijonas wrote:Looks interesting. Where could I download the mod?
https://www.mediafire.com/?tgga5jn0g373n3u :D

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