DasVivo wrote:Hello!
I have a question - how exactly do you implement or intend to implement the different color schemes for units?
Later versions of SR (from 1936 onwards I think) have the texture variations built into their engine. The different textures are automatically loaded based on their name. UNIT1860R.dds for example will be loaded by region R (which means Russia, Ukraine, Former Soviet, Belarus).
It`s Nerei business to answer to the rest of your post, but having been here for a while I can tell you that the Japanese units are done because he personally likes the subject. Same thing for other Asian units. This won`t change. Many of the units you`ve mentioned in your examples are already done and available in this thread. In fact there are not that many major pieces of equipment in current service that are missing (very few aircraft are for example). As for which other units are more important I`m sure it`s hard to find two persons with the same criteria and lists. How many pieces are produced is important, as is the number of users, but also important things are the degree to which those equipment pieces are still in use, the degree to which they can be substituted by other existing graphics, the degree to which some area is or not neglected in the original game in terms of unit graphics (Japan was very much neglected), the importance of a certain unit in the current environment (the Su-35s for example is by far the most potent Russian fighter of the day; one would want to be able to recognize it easily if possible), the ease of making the unit based on existing graphics (the Su-35s for example would just need a new texture and minor model modifications to the existing Su-27) and of course personal preference, of which Nerei`s is ultimately the most important. Nerei used to take monthly requests (some degree of argumentation was necessary of course), but his current work schedule does not allow that anymore.
EDIT:Ouch! I didn`t see you had already posted there Nerei...
Thanks for the replies, again absolutely no rush doing what you're doing I can be grateful of even just one improved unit we didn't have before!
Nerei wrote:~Snip
The different textures for say the T-90 will simply be assigned to different regions. E.g. a Russian T-90's will use the green, white and black texture while Indian vehicles will use the green and yellow texture. The game handles this automatically based on the name of these files. There is no need for multiple entries or tech levels and the models will automatically switch if say Russia where to sell a T-90 unit to India.
Really it is just something that adds variety to the different models. Assigning these models to units is no different than models without regional textures as long as you do not rename model or texture files.
The most extreme case of me using regional textures is probably my F-104 Starfighter that comes with 6 sets of regional textures.
~Snip~
MK4 wrote:
Later versions of SR (from 1936 onwards I think) have the texture variations built into their engine. The different textures are automatically loaded based on their name. UNIT1860R.dds for example will be loaded by region R (which means Russia, Ukraine, Former Soviet, Belarus).
Oh wow okay that is actually something I didn't know was possible in game - certainly makes sense and adds some nice flavor
As for what you make naturally makes sense you'd prioritize what interests you most - certainly the inevitable Korean Wars are going to become a little more graphically interesting.
I'll have to go through the thread again (I have been through it but not in a while) and sus out what gaps may be lacking as a 'Request' and who knows some day in the future might get a pleasant surprise but I have no expectations especially of someone elses time and effort. On the Su-35S for example being most capable fighter and thus useful to visualize it - I do understand what you mean but as the scale of SR goes well beyond it in Tech that becomes less relevant I would say versus knowing when such a piece were to show itself in reality.
I agree also MK4 about the idea of importance for how 'still utilized' a piece of equipment may be, though again this runs into the 'Tech Level' aspect of the game which renders each somewhat - out of the way depending on starting date (Great War, 1936, Cold War, Ultimate-2020)
That is why I think for international units ones that as you said can stand in for other units is a good idea - this way a singular unit (Like the excellent addition of the SA-2 provides a model that could be used potentially more appropriately for a number of the larger more 'Static' SAMs, or likewise a nice T-72 with ERA would potentially be able to cover somewhat T-72B, T-80BV and a range of other East European etc tanks with first generation ERA giving every nation and player potential 'upgrade'.
So for the sake of it I'll map out some of the most widespread 'Base' Model units (Eg: T-54/55 = T-54B, T-5T-55, T-55 Enigma) and I'll bold the ones that may be still lacking so we can see what may be nice gaps to request upon. I would also be curious to know how Battlegoat decides in its 'Updates' which units get the new Graphics and which do not. For example in the latest updates the S-300PMU-1 gets the new graphics but the SA-10 Grumble doesn't despite being from the same system and mostly the same in appearance. Indeed S-400 could get this applied to it also as they often use the same TEL from a visual sense.
To me I guess I am trying to think about how we can make maximum use of Nereis work and I think having a singular variant of kit getting them Eg: The PMU-1 doesn't give them the proliferation or indeed exposure that the work warrants, indeed the graphics for these units are more appropriate than the default ones which more closely resemble a wheeled MLRS. (Indeed as for Pictures, I can usually source them for quite a few different systems at least - used to be a member of Militaryphotos.net and at least for Russian Kit I know one of the best photographers around so can point you in the right direction for a lot)
Cheers for the response guys and I hope i didn't come across too pushy or else.
In written form it is harder to convey emotions so things can come across harder than intended. That however is something to consider both as reader and writer. Personally I tend to try and not take something personal or assume the worst intentions from the author unless they specifically try and go out of their way to make it an attack.
There is a complete list of models on page 29 of this thread.
I can post my own master list but that contains a lot of models that are not complete and will not be for some time (if ever) and some are just at the planning state so that is probably not the best thing to do.
I think the problem for BG is largely related to time. Unless you specifically know what a vehicle look picking the best graphics representation involves googling the unit and comparing it to possibly quite a few different models. That quickly becomes quite time consuming. I know enough about the armies of a few countries that I could do it fairly easily for those but if I had to do it for say the US, UK and Russia it would quickly end up taking a lot of time.
Also for the default mobile long range sam it tends to remind me of the ROK Chunmoo.
Like I said you (and everyone else for that matter) is welcome to post suggestions. I cannot promise when if ever I will get around to making them but I will consider all suggestions made. If something ends up not being made it is not necessarily due to me not wanting to make it but simply a matter of time. I might also have forgotten it which is why I suggest posting again if it appears I might have done that.
My preferences matter naturally but not to the point where I will rule anything except what I consider complete waste of time models like as mentioned the P 1000 Ratte.
I will probably not be able to add much to the planned December release and as mentioned January and February is most likely going to be low output months as I will also be doing other 3D models.
I am not entirely sure what models are going to make it. It also depends on when I decide the release date is which I still have to do.
The T-72, T-90 CV9040, I-153 and Mirage 2000C should make it. I also got a few warships that should be ready. Most of the missiles are also done.
The rest I really cannot say yet.
As for the other models they are not for any kind of game. It is just me deciding that to use one of my plastic figures as reference for a high detail model. It has been an on/off project since I got it in September.
Nerei wrote:
As for the other models they are not for any kind of game. It is just me deciding that to use one of my plastic figures as reference for a high detail model. It has been an on/off project since I got it in September.
By plastic figure you mean an old style toy (a la Toy Story) or a scale figurine? Either way, if you get it to completion I`d like to see a render of it.
In this case it is a fairly high detail 1:7 scale PVC figurine.
My plan is to hopefully end up with something that is fully articulated (the original however is not).
For the record yes it is from what most would call a strange Japanese game.
That looks wonderful! Thanks for making it! I don`t know if it`s the lighting or the extra work, but that`s possibly the most effective weathering you`ve done so far.
I am fairly certain that it is the first time I have done fake lights this extensively combined with large amounts of dirt.
It is probably the most dirty vehicle I have done so far. It is far dirtier than say the M1126 ICV, M1128 MGS and M1A2 TUSK II which where probably the record holders so far.
I mainly made it this dirty as an attempt at getting more colours onto an otherwise very green vehicle.
The dirt is also placed in a lower layer than I have done previously which means it overlaps less of the details of the vehicle.
I will probably do something similar for the T-72 and T-90 mainly to try and get some other colours onto the generic green vehicles. The camouflage tends to make it less noticeable and it is not that important on those vehicles.
Looks great! You really put some effort into this. Even the camouflage pattern is different for each of them. At some point do you think you could release a French texture without the roundels?
Would that also involve removing the text saying "ARMEE DE L'AIR" on the vertical stabiliser and emblems marking it as an aircraft of the Île-de-France squadron? ^_-
All are separate layers so it is fairly easy. Just remind me again if I forget it as release is still a bit off.
The camouflage is just simple 2 tone patterns. Those are fairly easy to make. Having them different is good though as it help differentiate the French from the Indian aircraft or the ROC from the UAE. Those are surprisingly similar.
Also while the markings generally are either of specific aircraft or at least in the same style as those nations aircraft the camouflage patterns are not of specific aircraft but just me making something that resembles aircraft from said airforces.
This is not exactly on the level of say F-15J 22-8938.
I might also make a Z region group version of the CV9040. It is not all that time-consuming and green vehicles in the middle east does stand out. In general I might do more regional textures over the next few months as these are easy and I still got quite a few models that only have say Japanese regional textures. That and possibly a few easy conversions.
Nerei wrote:Would that also involve removing the text saying "ARMEE DE L'AIR" on the vertical stabiliser and emblems marking it as an aircraft of the Île-de-France squadron? ^_-
Sure...
All are separate layers so it is fairly easy. Just remind me again if I forget it as release is still a bit off.
Thank you!
In general I might do more regional textures over the next few months as these are easy and I still got quite a few models that only have say Japanese regional textures.
Oh, could we please have a more conventional colour (as in US Helo Drab) for the AH-64 then?
So, I looked at a lot of the Tanks/MBTs in the game.... and have compiled a very rough list of MBT families based upon
A) Decade of first entering service
B) 'Relatives' of one another (so for the sake of it T-72 and M-84 are part of the T-72 family tree unless potential for complete new family exists: eg: T-90s or if they are from another of those 5 major States, Eg: T-55 vs Type 59)
C) I have stuck with the 5 Members of the UN Security Council as they tend to be the most prolific weapons exporters and thus their products will most likely be in the service of more nations, as compared to say - Merkava or Ariete Tanks)
This list will neither be perfect but it may help give people an idea of what units might impact the game in a large way and indeed help Battlegoat think about which units might benefit in updates from the graphics that Nerei has already kindly created.... Some discretion may be necessary as will some visual differences like T-64A vs T-64BM Bulat seem quite visually different....
Post War Tanks 40s/50s
T-54/55 - 86-100K Produced (Variants in Game: T-54, T-54A, T-54B, T-54-2, T-54B, T-55 Model 1958, T-55M3, Ramses II, T-55 Enigma, TVP T50/51, T-55AMV, TR-77, TR-85, TR-85M1 Bizonul, M-55 S) ZTZ-59 - 9500 Produced (Variants in Game: ZTZ-59, ZTZ-69, ZTZ-69 II, ZTS-62 Recon Light, ZTZ-59P Al Zarrar)
M47 - 8576 Produced (Variants in Game:M46A1 Pershing, M47E1 Patton, M47E2 Patton 90mm)
M48 - 12K Produced (Variants in Game: M48A1 Patton II, M48A2 Patton II, M48A5 Patton II, M48A5 Patton105mm, M48H CM11/12 Brave Tiger)
Centurion - 4423 Produced (Variants in Game: A41 Centurion Mk.1, FV4007 (Pz.55 Centurion Mk3), FV4011 (Pz 57) Centurion Mk 5/2, FV. 4017 Centurion Mk10, TariqCenturionDesert, Olifant 1A)
AMX-13 - 7700 Produced (Variants in Game: AMX-13 FL-10, AMX-13 FL-10 HOT ATGM, AMX-13/85 105mm FL-20, AMX-13 FL-90)
What families do we have: T-54/55, ZTZ-59 (Some of these units have more differences - like T-55AMV, T-55 Enigma etc but might be well served by Nereis graphics regardless in the interim)
Specific variants:
60s Era
T-62 - 22,700 Produced (Variants in Game: T-62, Pokpung Ho)
T-64 - 13,000 Produced (Variants in Game: T-64A, T-64B Kobra, T-64B Bulat)
M60 Patton - 15,000 Produced (Variants in Game: M60A1 Patton, M60A3 TTS Patton, M60A3 Patton)
AMX-30 - 3571 Produced (Variants in Game: AMX-30 Char, AMX-30B2 Char)
Chieftain - 2200 Produced (Variants in Game: FV-4201 Chieftain Mk 5, Shir-1 Khalid)
Vickers MBT - 2400 Produced (Variants in Game: Mk.1 Vijayanta, Mk. 7 Vickers, VFM Mk.5 Vickers, Mk. 3 Vickers)
What families do we have:
Specific Variants:
70s Era
T-72 - 25,000 Produced (Variants in Game: T-72M, T-72M1, PT-91 Twardy M 2001 (M84B), M-84, T-72M3/M4, M-84A4 Sniper, M-84D, M95 Degman, TR-125)
What families do we have:
Specific Variants: (Not a specific variant necessarily but T-72 variants equipped w/ 1st Gen ERA Bricks)
80s Era
T-80 - 5400 Produced (Variants in Game: T-80U, T-80UD, T-84-120 Yatagan, T-84-140 Oplot II, T-80UM1)
ZTZ-80 - 1200-2000 Produced (Variants in Game: ZTZ-80, ZTZ-85-II, ZTZ-85-IIAP)
M1 Abrams - 10,288 Produced (Variants in Game: M1 Abrams, M1A1 Abrams, M1A2 Abrams, M1A3 Abrams, M1A4 Abrams, M1A5 Abrams)
Challenger - 420 Produced (Variants in Game: Challenger I)
What families do we have:
Specific Variants: M1A2 TUSK
90s Era
T-90 - 3200 Produced (Variants in Game: T-90S, T-90MS)
ZTZ-90 - 2000~ Produced (Variants in Game: Al Khalid MBT 2000, ZTZ-90 II, ZTZ-96C, VT-4/MBT3000, ZTZ-98, ZTZ-98G, ZTZ-99A2) Leclerc - 862 Produced (Variants in Game: Leclerc MBT, Leclerc AZUR, Leclerc TLFC)
Challenger II - 446 Produced (Variants in Game: Challenger II, Challenger III, Challenger IIIU, Challenger IV)
What families do we have: T-90, Leclerc
Specific Variants:
Whilst I am at it - Germany
Germany
60s Leopard 1 - 4744 Produced (Variants in Game:Leopard 1A4)
80s Leopard 2 - 3480 Produced (Variants in Game: Leopard 2A3, Leopard 2A5, Leopard 2A6, Leopard 2PSO)
What families do we have:
Specific Variants: Leopard 2A5, 2A6, Leopard 2PSO (Close enough to each other visually IMHO)
If I have missed any units that have been done or started on let me know and I'll update this list.... Likewise I am happy to try and compile similar lists for widespread IFVs/APC Families and with far more ease specialised kit like SPAAG, SAMs, SPGs..
Looking at this list: I would say quite a few of the important variants are covered....
My thoughts are that a good US Cold War MBT might be useful - Something in say the M47, M48 and M60 Familiies of tanks.... They have enjoyed a good lifespan in service, used by many countries and widely produced... The game does already have a basic model for this niche though so we can weigh one argument for versus the other against...
Some of the other units added by Nerei I think likewise could be used for different variants than just the specific one applied in game (Far more appropriate than the current default models)
Examples of this would be
Model: S-300 PMU1 (Possible Variants in Game to apply to: S-300 PMU1, SA-10B Grumble, S-400 Triumf, SA-20 S-400 Triumf and possibly S-500*) (S-500 quite possibly will be a dual launcher not Quad Pack but still closer than current graphics)
Model: SSBN-667 Delta III (Possible Variants in Game to apply to: SSBN-667B Delta I, SSBN-667 Delta III, SSBN-667 Delta IV BDRM)
Nerei used to take monthly requests (some degree of argumentation was necessary of course), but his current work schedule does not allow that anymore.
