Mig's speed, Unit stats balancing ideas

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milivoje02
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Mig's speed, Unit stats balancing ideas

Post by milivoje02 »

I noticed that the speeds of all the Mig'(Mikayon)
in the game were reduced by an average of one fifth.
And the same has not been done for Japanese, French, German and US aircraft. For them are taken the greatest value that can be found on the Internet.

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Balthagor
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Re: Mig's speed

Post by Balthagor »

Exact example please? There are a lot of MiGs
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Re: Mig's speed

Post by milivoje02 »

Mig 25p Forxbax 1-in game top speed 2776 kmh. Internet top speed value 3494 kmh.
Mig 29 all planes, in game top speed form 1920 kmh to 2080 kmh. Internet top speed value form 2450 to 2500 kmh.
Mig 23m flogger in game top sped 1956 kmh. Internet top sped value 2500 kmh.
Mig 23 nir flogger in game top speed 1956. Internet top speed value 2500 kmh.
Mig 31 in game top speed 2400 kmh. Interent top seed value 3000 kmh(also classified as hig ear fighter)
Su 27 sk Flanker in game speed 2000 kmh. Interenet top sped value 2500 kmh.
Su 30 Flanker in game top speed 1696 kmh. Internet top speed value 2120 kmh
Su 33 flanker in game speed 1840 kmh. Internet top speed value 2300 kmh.
Su 35 in game top speed 1912 kmh. Internet top value 2778 kmh
Su 34 super flanker in game top speed 1760 kmh. Internet top speed value 2200 kmh.
Su 34 fullback in game top speed 1100 kmh. Internet top speed value 1900 kmh.

I also put some Suhoy.
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Balthagor
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Re: Mig's speed

Post by Balthagor »

We'll review some of that data.
24570
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Re: Mig's speed

Post by YaYo7 »

milivoje02, where did you find information on the Internet about the su-34 super flanker? :) I only know about su-37 super flanker(Terminator or Su-27M Flanker-F model with thrust vector engines).
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Re: Mig's speed

Post by milivoje02 »

(https://sr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1% ... 1%D1%83-34 )
Name of plane in game su-34 super flanker . Super Flanker is NATO nickname. If you ask me the worst with the nicknames passed su 39 forgfoog. How dangerous is nickname forgfoot? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Mig's speed

Post by YaYo7 »

I know about NATO Codenames and i know about the su-34 super flanker in game, just most likely it should be called as su-37 super flanker. I was just curious to know where you found the speed value 2200 kmh))
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Re: Mig's speed

Post by milivoje02 »

Link in #6 comment. Browse the internet. I had to. And I find data for 15 airplane models. And there are still plenty of them in the game which could ds be slightly corrected with the data.
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Re: Mig's speed

Post by Nerei »

No western aircraft do not just follow the logic of highest speed found on the internet = their speed.
If they did the numbers would be somewhat different. Here is the highest numbers I could possibly find for a number of western aircraft compared with the game.
Note that this is really just the highest numbers I could find. I am not saying they definitely should be changed to these values although it should be said that most source would probably qualify as being good enough.

That said the speed of say most F-15 variants, all F/A-18 or the F-14A is definitely just flat out way too low if we follow the logic the game uses and have all aircraft fly at highest possible speed all the time.


Lets start out looking at the F-15. Only the RF variant is even remotely accurate. Those with 1320 km/h is below what wikipedia lists as low altitude top speed.

Code: Select all

RF-15CJ Eagle Recce		2655
F-15I Strike Eagle		2132
F-15A Eagle			1320
F-15C Eagle			1320
F-15E Strike Eagle		1320
F-15K Strike Eagle		1320
highest source			Difficult to say as some do not list model but generally 2600-3000
There is also the F-14. Note the A variant. That is basically the speed of sound. Going by the sources I can find it is (like the F-15) below low altitude max speed.

Code: Select all

F-14D Tomcat			1988
F-14D Tomcat 2000		1988
F-14A Tomcat			1235
highest source			approx 2890
There is also the F/A-18 Hornet (not including fictive variants but they are too slow also). Wikipedia lists all as having a high altitude top speed of a bit over 1900km/h. The poor super hornet is actually not capable of breaking the sound barrier.

Code: Select all

F/A-18D Hornet			1532
F/A-18C Hornet			1532
F/A-18E Super Hornet		1071
F/A-18F Super Hornet		1071
highest source			Over 2222
The F-22A Raptor is not exactly accurate either. Wikipedia lists it at 2414 with a supercruise speed of 1953. The fictive Raptor D is also slower than this.

Code: Select all

F-22A Raptor			1928
highest source			2414
Going away from the US the Panavia Tornado is listed at mach 2.2 on wikipedia. That is around 2700km/h. Being wikipedia though it also lists 2400km/h. Because yeah. The game though has neither of these. Like the Super Hornet the air defence variant is not even capable of breaking the sound barrier

Code: Select all

IDS Tornado			1920
ECR Tornado			1920
ADV Tornado			1184
highest source			2700
Taking a Japanese aircraft there is the F-2A. Wikipedia lists it as having a top speed of 2114 or 2099 depending on if you go by km/h or mach number and that is not even remotely the highest speed I can find.

Code: Select all

F-2A				1975
highest source			2632
Staying with Japan the F-1 also have issues. Most sources say 1700km/h. That is however not what the game says.

Code: Select all

F-1				1360
highest source			1700
Finally for Japan we have the F-3 variants. Yes they also have issues with speed.
All sources I can find list a top speed somewhere around mach 2 (approx 2450km/h) if not more. The highest speed I found was mach 2.25 which is nearly 2800 km/h. The speed BG have gone with is around mach 1.7.

Code: Select all

F-3 ADC				2125
F-3 GAC				2125
highest source			2778

So yes there is plenty of error with aircraft speed but they are most definitely not exclusive to one group of countries.
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milivoje02
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Re: Mig's speed

Post by milivoje02 »

Anyone who has data updates for some planes should enter the data here no matter what country the planes are from.

Coorection for Move Range of unit 10336. In game range 1300 km. Internet range 2000 km.
2500 km range form data of manufacturing plant.
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Re: Mig's speed

Post by YaYo7 »

I’ll add some information about aircraft speeds.
MiG-29 family:
  • MiG-29A = 2450kmh
    MiG-29S = 2450kmh
    MiG-29M = 2500kmh
    MiG-29K(9-31) = 2300kmh
    MiG-29SMT = 2400kmh
    MiG-35 OVT = 2500kmh
    MiG-35S = 2560kmh
    MiG-29K(9-41) = 2200kmh
Su-27 family:
  • Su-27S/SK = 2500kmh
    Su-30/27PU = 2125kmh
    Su-33 = 2300kmh
    Su-35/27M = 2440kmh
    Su-34 = 1900kmh
    Su-30M/MK/MK2/M2 = 2100kmh
    Su-30MKI/MKM/MKA/SM = 2125kmh
    Su-33UB = 2120kmh
    Su-35S = 2400kmh
The highlighted font indicates the units that are in the game.
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Balthagor
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Re: Mig's speed

Post by Balthagor »

We do also have an internal data source we had purchased many years ago. In some cases we may decided to just stick with the values we have if we applied them in a consistent fashion.

The game does not require 100% accuracy, we won't have the budget to keep reviewing lots of little data bits forever.
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Re: Mig's speed

Post by Zuikaku »

Balthagor wrote:
May 16 2020
We do also have an internal data source we had purchased many years ago. In some cases we may decided to just stick with the values we have if we applied them in a consistent fashion.

The game does not require 100% accuracy, we won't have the budget to keep reviewing lots of little data bits forever.
Think that you based maximum speed in the game (at least for interceptors and multiroles) for the medium load of bombs and/or missiles aircraft carries to mission. Internet data in most cases give maximum speed for clean configuration (no missiles or bombs mounted on pylons). So that is the reason for somewhat lower values in your unit database.
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Re: Mig's speed

Post by Nerei »

Balthagor wrote:
May 16 2020
We do also have an internal data source we had purchased many years ago. In some cases we may decided to just stick with the values we have if we applied them in a consistent fashion.

The game does not require 100% accuracy, we won't have the budget to keep reviewing lots of little data bits forever.
Honestly one of the main issues I see with the entire unit database is consistency. In some cases it is really all over the place.
Just taking the examples I gave the F-14A has 62% of the speed the later models have. The ADV Tornado is basically the same compared to other Tornado models. The RF F-15's have twice the speed others have except for the I variant which for some reason is somewhere in between. The Super Hornet loes 30% speed over the older Hornets.

Other aircraft issues is some appear to use combat radius while other use 2x combat radius and others still use ferry range.

I can probably also write a few pages about how air attack and sub attack strength for warships are really illogical. I can find plenty of cases of how similarly armed warships have wildly different stats or how modern ships are outperformed by half a century old vessels.

I am okay with stats not being perfect. For a start what perfect is depends on source. I have a problem when it is wildly inconsistent

As an example the RF-15 was just a plan to put a SAR in a pod on a Mitsubishi F-15J. No logic in it being twice as fast as the regular F-15C. Likewise there is no logic in the F-14 suddenly gaining such a massive speed advantage by upgrading engines.

That is really whee my problem lies. Some stats are wildly out of whack and it does affect the game.
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Re: Mig's speed

Post by milivoje02 »

These speeds are reduced in the Suprem Ruler Ultimate( only for Mikayon and Suhoy ). In Suprem Ruler 2020 the highest values ​​for all(world wide) aircraft speeds were entered.
And the topic could be opened : Why the tanks that have automatic loading system have the same rate of fire as those one that do not have it. I mean I know most of soldiers that work as cannons loaders go to the gym,but can they really achieve auto-charging speed of machine.
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