The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

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milivoje02
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by milivoje02 »

The degree of civilization devolopment. The age in which society lives. Mishito Kaku has a theory about the civilizational stage of development valued by their ability to apsorb energy in the universe(something like in ours history would bee Middle Ages,Industrial Age,Modern Age, Nuclear Age.). Here's a video of him speaking(https://youtu.be/6GooNhOIMY0),he talks here about 3 type of civilization based on their capitability to get energy.
And there is Nikolai Karendashev scale of civilizations(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale) The Kardashev scale is a method of measuring a civilization's level of technological advancement based on the amount of energy they are able to use.
A Type I civilization, also called a planetary civilization—can use and store all of the energy available on its planet.
A Type II civilization, also called a stellar civilization—can use and control energy at the scale of its planetary system.
A Type III civilization, also called a galactic civilization—can control energy at the scale of its entire host galaxy.
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

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I hadn't heard of him before, I've added it to our references.
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by SGTscuba »

Research system that can allow setting order priority for research.

Being able to disable helicopters resupplying ships so that my units can have some supplies out of them once I have landed the troops.

Ships being able to resupply helicopter cargos.

Being able to unload single units at a time like we could in SR2010.

Missile targeting order that forces the unit in question to move into missile range, unload its payload, then return to base. Maybe have this order stackable as part of the waypoint system.
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

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Maybe you could insert a menu option in future update so everyone can create their own in-game avatar. And the introduction of option of changing the state political system,to finally allow the introduction of a monarchy.
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by Balthagor »

milivoje02 wrote:
May 06 2020
...changing the state political system...
I disagree with changing the government type as a game option. The maps are designed around specific circumstances. You can't just play North Korea as a Democracy and pretend that all the current relationships between regions would be the same. It makes no sense to me.

But I'm just one member of the team, so who knows...
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

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And what about the change of the state system on the elections( I had that in mind but expressed myself poorly) ?
Or a military coup? means the introduction of dictation before elections.
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by SGTscuba »

Unit license production. That way you don't have to buy the design outright if you don't have the tech. It would be a license to build a number of battalions/squadrons/ships.

Of course it might need some balancing to stop people with really backward technology countries from license producing the best unit in the world, although you could just say its not a permanent transfer of technology, so should cost less but still be possible without having to have the tech. (lets say the country supplying the license is supplying the high tech equip?)

Also Strategic unit trading, a global market for selling equipment that anyone can select units from without having access to a countries reserves. Having filters for different types and maybe by country. Then it would add them to the diplomatic screen for you to make an offer.
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

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milivoje02 wrote:
May 06 2020
And what about ...
No idea if we'll reevaluate the way elections work (winning or losing). I don't believe in this day and age, anyone could 'become' a monarchy, that's a thing of the past.

We do have some interesting designs for coups, that was considered for development as part of the last few updates, but didn't make the cut. High on my personal wishlist.
SGTscuba wrote:
May 06 2020
Unit license production. That way you don't have to buy the design outright if you don't have the tech. It would be a license to build a number of battalions/squadrons/ships.
Been discussed before and it's a concept I really like. I should see what notes I still have on that. Might be helpful if you wanted to search the forums, see if we've got an old thread discussing this idea. Bump it if you find it. If not, start a thread that I can link in my ticket.
SGTscuba wrote:
May 06 2020
Also Strategic unit trading, a global market for selling equipment that anyone can select units from without having access to a countries reserves. Having filters for different types and maybe by country. Then it would add them to the diplomatic screen for you to make an offer.
Also been discussed before, also an idea I've thought would be intresting.
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by Nerei »

SGTscuba wrote:
May 06 2020
Unit license production. That way you don't have to buy the design outright if you don't have the tech. It would be a license to build a number of battalions/squadrons/ships.

Of course it might need some balancing to stop people with really backward technology countries from license producing the best unit in the world, although you could just say its not a permanent transfer of technology, so should cost less but still be possible without having to have the tech. (lets say the country supplying the license is supplying the high tech equip?)

Also Strategic unit trading, a global market for selling equipment that anyone can select units from without having access to a countries reserves. Having filters for different types and maybe by country. Then it would add them to the diplomatic screen for you to make an offer.
Typically what those countries are doing is placing orders at factories in the manufacturing countries.
Take Uganda buying Russian T-90S MBT's. I highly doubt Uganda can build such vehicles themselves and setting up the production locally is in most cases way, way too expensive to be feasible. We are likely talking billions setting up supporting industry. I remember there where claims restarting the F-22 production line would cost nearly $10B and while we can argue if that might be accurate for the US it really would be in a country without any significant aerospace industry.
On top of that the cost of each unit will likely be significantly higher. Japanese military aircraft manufacture is a good example of this.


In most cases if there are any "local" production it tends to be Ikea style knock-down kits that the recipient country then builds a "factory" to assemble. It cost a fraction of an actual production line and politicians can look good having generated workplaces and "industry". Such facilities can later be used for servicing vehicles (with imported parts).
Such factories can be ignored beyond what the game already have with traded units suffering casualties you then have to repair (and are provided the resources to do so).

I honestly do not think having a tech requirement to buying designs is a bad thing. If you already got them then we can assume you have the infrastructure in place to build the designs and if not we can assume the cost is going to into establishing the supporting industry the production of advanced military hardware requires.

Having a diplomatic option to buy factory production slots with a friendly country would go a long way to covering arms trade. The remaining part would indeed be selling finished armament.


The real restriction though is what other countries will sell you.
Ugandas T-90S order was placed before the Armata was revealed from what I remember but let us pretend it was not. Would Russia have been willing to sell their fancy new MBT with a lot of new innovations build into it to a 3rd party country like that? Probably not. You can also consider that in the past when Russia was selling M variants of the T-72 they where selling downgraded tanks.
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by Balthagor »

Nerei wrote:
May 06 2020
...option to buy factory production slots...
Or borrow, maybe for "a year".

@SGTScuba, if you find an old thread, please quote Nerei's post into it.
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by Nerei »

For Supreme Ruler: The Next Generation other than getting a naration from Patrick Stewart (yes I intend on making poor Star Trek jokes) would it would be nice if we could get some changes to how naval vessels work.

Right now it is basically impossible to represent weapons like torpedoes. If we consider world war 2 torpedoes then they have a fairly short effective range but if they hit they are devastating. There are very few ships that will take a full spread of say 15 Type 93 "Long Lance" and remain afloat. That includes battleships and aircraft carriers.
Now Imagine the cruiser Ōi firing 20 of those at an enemy ship then turning 180 degrees and firing another 20. No torpedo defence system will make that survivable. That is assuming the Torpedo does not run below the Keel in which case the torpedo defence system will do basically nothing. From what I remember this is basically what happened to the Italian battleship Caio Duilio and why a single aerial torpedo sank the ship.

There is not way to represent the potential lethality that destroyers and similar vessels have up close without turning them into 100% accurate capital ship killers. The same is true for torpedo bombers for that matter.


Submarines have the same problem with representing torpedoes. The current representation where they are sniper vessels that snipe enemy warships at say 65km range is to put it bluntly stupid. Good luck getting a solution that good as such range. That is not considering if the enemy just moves their rudder a bit you will miss by a mile as you are guessing where the enemy will be in 30-60 minutes. Also you do not have a wire that is that long so the last maybe 30-40km the torpedo will be running on whatever settings you set it to.

Also while on submarines can we do something about the differentiation between nuclear and conventional maritime propulsion? It is more than just endurance. It is endurance at "speed". The idea that diesel boats are these super stealthy boats going at max speed submerged is just silly. Yes it can do that for a few hours and after that the batteries will be nearly dead and it has to go to the surface to recharge them.
The argument that the cooling pumps and turbine of a nuclear boat is more noisy than a diesel boat is "only" accurate while the diesel boat runs on electric engines fed by the batteries. On Diesel engines it is far more noisy.
That is not considering that if it moves at max speed on the surface it will likely cavitate which adds further noise. Also that lovely diesel engine will be spewing a lot of hot air into the atmosphere that any thermal imaging system can pick up a long distance away. The same is true for a snorkel. It has a radar cross section a MPA can pick up.
Finally if there is any thermocline layering in the ocean those conditions will favour a nuclear boat over a fast running diesel as it can consistently remain below it while the diesel boat will regularly have to pass it and be stuck on the same side as surface vessels and ASW helicopters.
For those curious sonar detection through a thermocline layer is difficult.

The difference between a nuclear and conventional submarine is that the conventional vessel is traditionally a defensive coastal vessel tasked with protecting said coastline. You do not hunt warships on the open sea with them. With a typical travel speed of less than 5kn they are simply too slow for that.
AIP like fuel cells does not make a difference here either. If you compare the output of a fuel cell array found on the Type 212 it is somewhere around a few orders of magnitude lower than the reactor output of a Virginia. AIP gives endurance not speed.

From a practical perspective this lack of differentiation means that diesel boats are far better at fulfilling the tasks typically given to nuclear boats and with the higher price of said nuclear vessels they are far less attractive than they really should be.


The same is true for surface combatants though slightly less extreme.
If a vessel have a range of 40.000km or 1.000.000 is not that important. 40K is plenty in nearly all situations. The problem is the conventional vessel really do not have that range at the speeds the game have them moving at. Going from the cruising speeds those ranges are typically given for to flank speed which is basically what the all ships are doing might see a range reduction of 75% if not more.

Again from a practical perspective the difference is that conventional vessels are under fewer range and speed related fuel restrictions than they really are which makes the more expensive nuclear vessels less attractive.
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by Nerei »

Balthagor wrote:
May 06 2020
Nerei wrote:
May 06 2020
...option to buy factory production slots...
Or borrow, maybe for "a year".

@SGTScuba, if you find an old thread, please quote Nerei's post into it.
Alternatively I pay you X for you to build Y number of Z vehicles which is given to me when they are done.

Having the option of deciding to keep them when done would be an interesting for say emergencies (or if diplomatic relations have deteriorated) and would have historic precedence. The UK did it with the battleship Almirante Latorre during the great war and its sister ship became the aircraft carrier Eagle
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by milivoje02 »

Balthagor wrote:
May 06 2020
milivoje02 wrote:
May 06 2020
And what about ...
We do have some interesting designs for coups, that was considered for development as part of the last few updates, but didn't make the cut. High on my personal wishlist.
That would be great, i hope something happens with that.
What type will it be? Will the player be able to perform this at the beginning of the game? Will it happen to him during the game? Of course if the information can be shared with the community on the matter.
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by SGTscuba »

Nerei wrote:
May 06 2020
Balthagor wrote:
May 06 2020
Nerei wrote:
May 06 2020
...option to buy factory production slots...
Or borrow, maybe for "a year".

@SGTScuba, if you find an old thread, please quote Nerei's post into it.
Alternatively I pay you X for you to build Y number of Z vehicles which is given to me when they are done.

Having the option of deciding to keep them when done would be an interesting for say emergencies (or if diplomatic relations have deteriorated) and would have historic precedence. The UK did it with the battleship Almirante Latorre during the great war and its sister ship became the aircraft carrier Eagle
I think I did suggest this as part of the SUT system. You could "buy" equipment to designs too, and then they would be delivered on completion. Would mean that countries could get access to cheaper/older units even if they have gone out of stock.
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by Balthagor »

milivoje02 wrote:
May 06 2020
Balthagor wrote:
May 06 2020
milivoje02 wrote:
May 06 2020
And what about ...
We do have some interesting designs for coups, that was considered for development as part of the last few updates, but didn't make the cut. High on my personal wishlist.
That would be great, i hope something happens with that.
What type will it be? Will the player be able to perform this at the beginning of the game? Will it happen to him during the game? Of course if the information can be shared with the community on the matter.
The design is not complete, I'm not ready to discuss it yet.
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