Looking for some hints and advice for a first "playthrough"

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xsmilingbanditx
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Looking for some hints and advice for a first "playthrough"

Post by xsmilingbanditx »

Hey Guys,

i just recently bought the game (as I am a huge fan of GS games like Hearts of Iron, Europa Universalis, Stellaris and the like...well you might see a pattern here :) ). As for my first playthrough I'd like to get some advices and info. Like, how exactly are timelines (historical and ahistorical) handled? Because I thought about picking Japan - as I live Japan :) - and start in 1914 to let the sun finally rise in modern times...really high.
How does the game fare to that? I suppose I'd fail at first, but being with the allies (historical) would only be half bad. So what I'm up to is, how can I roughly expect the world to develop when I start that early and want - or at least try - to bring a strong Japan into the Cold War Era? Will the World even transition to that Era? If you know what I mean by that example: Is there some kind of decision tree the AIs follow or do they (re-)act to what's happening? Like in Hearts of Iron 4 where the AI is kinda "railroaded" to a specific goal.
Is it even a good Idea to start that early or should I pick another starting date? Honestly I really like the long runs way more :P

Thanks for all your input - if any :)
Rosalis
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Re: Looking for some hints and advice for a first "playthrough"

Post by Rosalis »

In my opinion it translates very bad. For one the AI doesnt colonise or release countries, just annexes, so you can imagine if "WW1" is over, its basicly game over. You and BG should have no ambition that this can be improved, for example you can let democracy's liberate like US, but that's not what UK and France did. You can fix alot of this with tricks yourself, by loading the regions and try to do what happened after, but after WW1 that leaves you dry on events on "WW2". In "WW2" the world volatility setting is too high, this sounds weird, but with this setting AI randomly declare alot of wars, so dont be surprised if Russia declare war on UK in '37. Reported couple of times, lowered 1 volatility setting, still reports of being too high and now it faded away. Another issue on 36 map there is not enough oil that can be exploited, so you are left with unrealistic economy, giving alot of issues for the AI. This is gamebreaking for me during WW2, but definetely game breaking once you reach the '60's. Another issue is military goods are very scarce in early scenarios, reports of troops just watching eachother for months, because they are no bullets isnt rare. I think atleast 80% moved on to CW scenarios or modern times. This is also reflected by the mods on this game. One of the other issues is if Germany win the war (like 80% chance), they are left dry on unit designs for about 40 years, cause there wasnt an industry in Germany for this, yes you read right. Not sure about Japan, Japan got alot of other issues in WW2.

I played 1 WW2 game in SRU and that was as US, i still remember every second of it and it was alot of fun, my first SRU game. First i took a landing area in Libya, invaded Sicily, then UK was invading Albania, i invaded Greece, then UK was invading Northern Germany and i suported the invasion. I think i accomplished everything with about 70 infantry units, just healing entrenched in the cities after a fight. Sended in some artillery to defend the areas, but i think i managed to end the war with less then 100 land troops in europe. Greece was a dead zone, im pretty sure i killed 60/70% of Germans there. I tried to play another game as Germany, but seeing how weak tanks and planes were just got me disliking WW2 scenario.

Alot of wasted effort has been put in GW and WW2 in my opinion. Best and most popular scenario will always be 2020. But hey like they say to promote the game, it is possible to play from 1914 to far in modern times, technicly possible that is. Playing Japan in 2020 is alot of fun tho, you need to build up a strong military, but its easy to defend islands and Japan is economicly very strong in 2020. This way you can learn alot about the game, transporting troops, defending key cities, etc.
xsmilingbanditx
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Re: Looking for some hints and advice for a first "playthrough"

Post by xsmilingbanditx »

Hey there, thanks for the heads up. So what you're saying is, that there are no (for the lack of better words) scripted Events for different outcomes of the war and the like?
Meaning I should either start '36 and call it a day when the war ends or start in '49 to play through the CW Period? Not to mention 2020 but like I said, I do prefer longer runs to really get my stuff going and planning.
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Re: Looking for some hints and advice for a first "playthrough"

Post by GIJoe597 »

Hello xsmilingbanditx welcome aboard. Would you please enlighten me as to what GS means? I cannot get past that, apologies.
xsmilingbanditx
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Re: Looking for some hints and advice for a first "playthrough"

Post by xsmilingbanditx »

GIJoe597 wrote:
Dec 17 2019
Hello xsmilingbanditx welcome aboard. Would you please enlighten me as to what GS means? I cannot get past that, apologies.
Hey there and thank you...No Problem...GS is short vor "Grand Strategy" so GSG in that context translates to "Grand Strategy Game" :-)
Rosalis
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Re: Looking for some hints and advice for a first "playthrough"

Post by Rosalis »

In HoI4 there are alot of hidden events, prolly easy over 100k events. BG is not a studio that can do that, and HoI4 is also over when you won the war. There is no game i saw that can do transitions right. 1 condition of and alot of the events might break. Not saying its impossible, but for a single person it would prolly take years to mod, one of the big issues you will face is there can be only 1 loyalty per hex. Alot of regions changed over the years.

Basicly you get the events of the sandbox you play in. CW start in '49, but i wouldnt see a reason why you cant play a long game in 2020. 1 save game can take literally months. Anyway CW only got a few scripted wars, and thats a good thing in my opinion. It allows to play a different game each time you start a new save and not be forced one way or the other. You can influence alot of things, want to see a region win, give them units, want more influence get the transit treaties and help them in a proxy war. Or just leave them, and take over the region later and do with it how you like. Thats the power of this game, not scripted events.
xsmilingbanditx
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Re: Looking for some hints and advice for a first "playthrough"

Post by xsmilingbanditx »

Thanks for the Info. Wouldn't judge the game negatively before playing, justvsaw a few Videos and lets plays and hit the button :-) I love this stuff and I'll get my playtime out of it. It's just good to know some this beforehand so I can make a proper decision for my first game.

Edit: Did I get it correctly that e.g. when you play the 1936 Scenario there are no 1949 Scenario Events and so fort?
SGTscuba
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Re: Looking for some hints and advice for a first "playthrough"

Post by SGTscuba »

The 49 events are present in the 36 sandbox, but the 36 and 49 events aren't present in the 14 sandbox.
My SR:U Model Project, get the latest and post suggestions here:

http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=28040
xsmilingbanditx
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Re: Looking for some hints and advice for a first "playthrough"

Post by xsmilingbanditx »

SGTscuba wrote:
Dec 17 2019
The 49 events are present in the 36 sandbox, but the 36 and 49 events aren't present in the 14 sandbox.
That sounds interesting, thank you!
May I ask how peace deals are handled between countries and factions and which kind of peace deals and triggers/thresholds for peace deals there are?
Rosalis
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Re: Looking for some hints and advice for a first "playthrough"

Post by Rosalis »

It does sounds interesting, but if Germany win war (most likely with USSR territory), and China annexes Japan with puppets, theres not much of a cold war left is it? Those events are most likely to break sinds thats most likely to happen. Or you must like pictures, the US president will prolly change now and then, prolly the UK one too if Germany fail to invade them. What i would do is atleast release USSR, you can do that if you load the region in "multiplayer". Im forgetting about colonies getting their liberation, but yeah its not like they can do something.
Anyway maybe you can pull it of with Japan in WW2. It will be a challenge for a first game in SR thats for sure.

The peace deals BG are very clear about. Leaders wont make peace. There are peace deals, but its mostly annexing till the end. The trigger is either inactivity between troops fighting/taking territory or loosing most infantry and tanks on the battlefield. Capturing the capital will trigger most surrenders. At that point you can choose if you wanna annex, liberate or colonise. Colonising will give surplus of goods to you. This can also be done later, that feature got recently add.
If you get send a peace deal, be very carefull to delete the offer, its most likely the only one, and yea even after you took almost everything, they want you to pay for the deal.
There is another feature add on which you can improve relations. Suporting goverment or opposition. This can give you casus belli or improve relations. According to BG this can be used to make peace, but i never used it for that. Anyway best way to learn about the game is just try it. I dont think you got anything to fear about the Japanese king over here :) What you could do is make an letsplay on the forum. Im sure there are plenty of people that can help you through the way.
Last edited by Rosalis on Dec 18 2019, edited 1 time in total.
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Zuikaku
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Re: Looking for some hints and advice for a first "playthrough"

Post by Zuikaku »

Playing Japan from 1914 is a great fun.
Passed beyond WW1 and supported both sides in conflict with logistics (selling units and military goods). WW1 ended in draw and there is some sort of cold war between Entante and Central powers now (1931).

You can get the game very far if you are ready to do some workarounds to adress issues AI can't handle. It breaks immersion but if you can handle that it can be very fun longterm. So, AI do not liberate. You load the region in multiplayer and liberate the regions so you don't have one big winner blob region after the wars. The same thing with economy. Unfortunatelly AI is the weak spot of the game and needs a bit helping here and there if you want to play long games.
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!
xsmilingbanditx
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Re: Looking for some hints and advice for a first "playthrough"

Post by xsmilingbanditx »

Hey guys,

thanks for all the input! Very much appreciated! For my first noobish try I'll stick with Japan but will start in 1936 and try to gobble up whatever I can, maybe stay neutral/help allies and try to get the Cold War running but with a hopefully strong Japan - something like that :-)
I guess 1914 will be my next try. Or whatever sounds interesting when I get a better feeling about understanding the game and the AI.
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Re: Looking for some hints and advice for a first "playthrough"

Post by SixthtySixthSix »

enjoy the warfare and the conquest... sr is a war simulator, not a history simulator. battalion-level command of entire armies and then an economy and diplomacy model support that. it is about and for tactics. it does that well.

i love micromanagement. so much micromanagement that my eyes float right out of their sockets. nothing like planning an army's order of battle, assessing the terrain and objectives, and conquering a small country.

don't forget air superiority.
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xsmilingbanditx
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Re: Looking for some hints and advice for a first "playthrough"

Post by xsmilingbanditx »

Soooooo first off, again, many thanks for all the input. Now, after some totally failed starts (and propably still totally without any idea what I'm really doing) I decided to first get a gameplan for myself.

So, my goals were:

a) get a stable economy (money money money) and production stuff going -
b) focus on Land construction/production as I don't know how to use Navy properly
c) get Research going as research is key
d) produce units like a manica
e) do not piss off Germany, UK, USSR or USA
f) conquer China

So now it's somewhere Mid/End 1938 and finally China has fallen. Of course, during game setup I did set it all to (very) easy as I don't have any clue what's good. Basically I used the settings from a "Beginners Guide" Video with World Volatility set to medium and AI behavior to Default (not passive of defensive...).
So well, what happened so far? Germany already wrecked havoc, killing off Belgium and Poland, attacking France and the Czechs. And now the Netherlands. USSR went for Turkey early and France took out Spain while Italy killed off Switzerland (lol). So Europe basically is a really huge clusterf....while I finally managed to get China (well I was a meany and attacked China when they declared on Mongolia).

So, my observations so far:

1. Naval Invasions

While I am a huge fan of those in Hoi4, I don't have a clue how to do them properly in SU. I mean I can setup patrols but got to Micro hundreds of Ships (recently found out about Battlegroups yay). But my Units mostly get killed off more or less quickly. Any hints on Naval warfare and how to properly do it?

2. Unit Strength and AI behavior on Land.

As I went "All Land" and at least some Air I realized that Infantry is...meh. Except for defense maybe (which I really didn't have a lot). Air support seems to be key but microing them is a real pain. When going for China I set the Battlefield(?) ... well areas...whatever they are called again to high priority and offense. Nevertheless, a lot of my units where just chilling and after I sent them to attack they just returned afterwards...
Going for Tanks and Artillery seems good...with some Mechanized or Motorized Stuff and Infantry in between. Buuuut....why exactly is attacking always "move and attack"? I mean, I do right click the enemy and Artillery moves in close. Is there any chance for it to attack and stay where it is (or move only as far as it has to)? Honestly in the End I was mostly stacking and attacking towns because I get wrecked otherwise.

3. Supply and Logistics

Those seem to be very important. That's why I always increase spending on infrastructure and military because that seems to help. I also build alot of barracks and supply depots along the line when I attack into the country.

4. Building the Nation

I always fire up taxes and social spending to get aboved 100% in everything. That seems to help with money and stuff, but my people don't seem to care (approval rating?) no matter what I do. I had approval going down after lowering taxes...uhuuurm...

5. Production and Research

I really built alot of Stuff there (Research Centres, Production Buildings for Consumer/Industy/Military Goods) but don't really understand how the output it scaling. I cannot seem to find the numbers there. For example, while I produce about 130kt of Agricultural Stuff and 10kt Consumer goods I produce 860 Military Goods...860 what? And where can I read about how much is produced in any given Facility?

edit: And yeah...how does Reasearch scale? When do I get new Slots? What do Research Buildings actually do?
edit2: Ah yeah Diplomacy...I just throw money at them until they like me and deal them stuff...I really don't know why some do declare war and some don't (yes I do read the values and know about Casus Belli and stuff ^^).


Sooooo....any advice, addition or correction about my observations so far?
If anyone is interested, I want to stay out of WWII mostly, grab some Land and be good with the bigger guys. Only thing I might intervene is if Germany wins because I want a classic Cold War scenario...just being a little stronger than normal :)
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Re: Looking for some hints and advice for a first "playthrough"

Post by GIJoe597 »

1. When it comes to the navy, both offense and defense, there are 2 things which are paramount, in my opinion. Submarines and aircraft. With these two alone you can dominate all naval battles and/or force landings on foreign beaches/ports. That being typed there are also some very specific things you should look for when producing naval units.

Submarines, the most important stats are Stealth (incorrectly named Profile), Combat Time, and damage/range.

Surface forces, as much as I enjoy the SR series, naval combat has never been something it is good at. This means, the least important factor here is Surface Attack. What you should be looking for, on any start other than WWI, is Air Defense. Air Defense can make or break your fleet, with it you might be able to maneuver as you see fit, without it your ships will become artificial reefs. The other important stats are Soft and Hard Attack. This is when you force a beachhead, you move them heavies right up to shore and pound the snot out of the enemy.

2. Artillery - Never select artillery and then click on the enemy, this forces the arty to move "to" the enemy. What you should do is look at the range of your arty and click on the hex that is that range from your enemy. Example, my arty has a range of 30km, I will position it 2 hexes away from the enemy as each hex is 16kms.

A note about Tanks, they are scenario/location specific. They do well on flat open ground, they should never be forced into close combat, such as towns, forests, etc. The most important use of tanks is in the very early game years, WWI to about WWII, when artillery is king. Tanks, being a Hard Target can last long enough to get close to that pesky artillery in the early years due to armor. Around WWII time frame, depending on the technology level of your enemy, planes will decimate tanks, as well as all ground units.

3. Increasing Infrastructure spending is not a bad thing, but the amount is situational. When you increase funding to Social Services what you are doing is hiring more employees to increase the amount of services which may be offered. This can drastically reduce your available Manpower, limiting the amount of Reserve Personnel you have. It can also force the cost of Production up as your Unemployment decreases. Consider this; I have a plant which requires 10 workers, and 10 people are there. However my unemployment is falling, when I build another plant that requires 10 people, only 7 are available. This means in order to operate this plant I must pay the workers more, since these 7 are doing the job of 10 people. Consider it as them working longer hours/overtime. Generally, you do not want to have less than 3% unemployment, with a 4% to 5% being a good goal.

Thinking about what I typed above, building facilities as you march across foreign land may not be the best choice, each one needs to be staffed (manpower) as well as requires, at the least, Electricity. In my opinion a better option is to use Supply Vehicles/Aircraft/Helicopter. With only a few you can march across any desert as long as an airbase/field is in range.

4. You typed you are playing on easy settings across the board, this means Military and Domestic Approval have less of an impact on your actions. Raising taxes of course will upset your people, the key is to find a balance, again depending on your settings and Government type. For Democracies, I find it is easier to raise taxes individually, instead of across the board. Luxury items (Consumer Goods - TV's/cell phones, etc) may be taxed more than essentials, (Agriculture/Electricity). You may also do well raising tax on Petroleum, as that can also influence your military in so far as it needs petroleum (depending on the time fame) to function above a certain tech level. The higher it is taxed, the less your citizens use, the more available for your military or export.

5. Despite me playing the SR series for more than a decade, and once having a thorough grasp of the game mechanics, the current version makes zero sense to me. There was a time, when you could look at the stat card of a facility and gauge what its output would be. It was logical and depended on the base max possible output of the facility, Supply Level in the hex, loyalty and Manpower. sadly, this is no longer the case. There are hidden algorithms which control the output amounts of all facilities now. You can build 1000 plants of a particular type with each one have a max possible output of 1000t, yet you may only get a total of 50t for the entire group. Shrugs, just the way it is now. This is mostly present/noticeable in the early starts, WWI to about WWII, the effect diminishes as you advance in time.

Research - Each nation starts with one slot. They get an additional slot for each Research Center they build or capture. If you have 10 Centers, you have 11 slots. I am not sure what you mean when you ask, "What do Research Buildings actually do?". They allow you to research technology.
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