Economic Output

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SGTscuba
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Economic Output

#1 Post by SGTscuba » Mar 07 2019

I've been posting on discord with a few other people about the in game economy and some other things about it. I'd like to bring the discussion over here so it isn't lost as I feel some of the economy changes over the last year or so have been detrimental, mostly around the change in how production and pricing is worked out.

I've copied the discussion from discord here:

sgtscubaLast Tuesday at 19:37
they do if you tech up, but overall the economy is much harder then before. I suppose it was because i could create shortages and drag prices up, but this tactic is much less relevant now as it seems the lack of supply doesn't push prices mega up which should be the case (within limits though)
obviously increasing global prices would increase gdp and tax take, helping you economy
I think it also doesn't help that production capability is less meaningful as its tied to demand from what i understand, rather than capacity per production facility, supply of facility and any tech/ infrastructure/domestic approval benefits
In my '36 game, even though i have 1000's of oil platforms, i'm only producing 43mil barrels of oil a day, which is around my demand. Building more platforms doesn't seem to help in the long run as it drops back down to roughly demand after a while, even though demand hasn't really risen. It makes it hard to stockpile ready for a war.
I'd reckon I've probably built around 80-90 mil capacity if I used the old system
I get 46 mil at the moment
Although maybe there is something in the formula i'm missing

KallipolisLast Tuesday at 20:07
imo the econ game in 14 is kind of broken. XD
Some countries are just beasts that can get way ahead in tech.
Murica
Japan actually use to be crazier but it seems like something changed in the last update.

sgtscubaLast Tuesday at 21:56
@battlefella care to comment on this?
or are we just being noobs?

whismerhillYesterday at 14:02
theorically & AFAIK what happens if you build more oil, is you reduce the total oil production per platform WORLDWIDE
so you should be producing more & more of the world's total capacity

whismerhillYesterday at 14:09
and yeah prices are not influenced anymore by the state of the market at all as far as I can see
instead prices seem somehow indexed on player's production costs and they go down as your economy crashes or go up as your economy(GDP) booms (with a delay in both directions, and it's not 1-1 either)

sgtscubaYesterday at 19:45
@whismerhill Yeah i had heard it described as that. Didn't someone annex the world and then meet global demand from a single hex?
Its probably why I prefered the old system, as at least I could understand it

sgtscubaYesterday at 20:04
I'm still unsure as to why it changed though. It seemed to work pretty well over the years

whismerhillYesterday at 20:55
it was probably too easy to abuse the market to make insane amounts of money & ruin AI economies in the process
but yeah it sucks a bit cause it means in case there's a shortage of goods, if your country is otherwise rich it's not easy to try & grab the market by buying at max price
(the "solution" to this is to increase the amount you want to maximum, that way you'll be prioritized in global market goods distribution)
and sometimes you sell your military goods @10% profit, despite nobody being able to produce the amounts you do, and other countries needing thousands of military goods per day, price & margin will NOT increase :neutral_face:
the main issue for me is that you can't sell above market price, no AI will buy above it, which is stupid if they are rich & need the goods but whatever

whismerhillYesterday at 21:15
things are simplified for real time AI calculations shrugs

sgtscubaYesterday at 21:45
yup

hopefully we will get the old system back somehow

sgtscubaYesterday at 22:09
it also leads to major oil shortages late in game, no matter how much you build
@Balthagor

whismerhillYesterday at 22:22
it's weird though, if the whole word needs oil, the formulae should boost per facility oil production
or maybe it's just a feature

MikeToday at 02:26
I've found other ways to abuse the economy :smiley:
I do miss being able to over produce to stock pile.

You can drive up coast however by massive over building.
cost*

whismerhillToday at 03:12
yeah I like to admire the sea while driving too :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
is that on a 14' start ? because that looks like a 20' start tbh
My SR:U Model Project, get the latest and post suggestions here:

http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=28040

YoMomma
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Re: Economic Output

#2 Post by YoMomma » Mar 07 2019

Do we really need hundreds of economy topics?

Basicly what production cost above market price is, is over production in high gdp countries. If you move that production to low gpd countries the cost drop. Thats what you clearly see in the earlier scenarios, where mainly UK/US is developped. The AI will just keep selling, so if most production is in high gdp/c regions, you will get a very high production cost. Since regions gonna build towards there demand, it's just increasing production cost further.

The problem with economy isnt from the latest changes, altho they just make some of it worse. The changes were there for a reason. It was just not enough. I wonder if theres time to fix it tho. To hesitant to make big changes.

Now if you get above 1.300.000.000 population theres when the real problems begin, theres no significant domestic demand increase with higher population, so less sales, but prolly still gaining facilities, while you/AI should decrease with the current economy. Also no increase in tax income and increase of social cost with less and less effect on your gdp/c. With regons becoming bigger and bigger further in game, that just increase the problem. Having hard time staying postitive treasury. Which is game breaking since i got ALOT of hrs in this game. New players dont get any real gaming feedback from their economy changes in that period. If all was reversed then BG would be clooser to fixing it.

Im pretty sure tho, in the end they will say its a feature. Regions are not meant to world dominate as history showed. Else i cant explain the problems they have with economy. Especially since last economy changes they said literally because of complaints they changed economy, not because they thought it needed to be improved.
Gameplay 1st

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