T region group,East Europe Countries,Serbian teh tree.

[Nerei]

I think mr Latours argument is that adding a few new unit designs is not what is going to move a significant amount of copies particularly at this point.
The people that would buy the game would probably buy it anyway and those on the fence is unlikely to be swayed by "now with 10 more swedish unit designs". That is assuming they even see it which is not really that likely.

This is a Steam game. Steam is an extremely oversaturated market where disappearing in the ocean of titles is basically the rule. Making an update that introduces new unit designs or even opening op to a new platform like Linux is not going to do that much most likely simply due to none noticing it. It is not even like they can play on buzz words like "Trump" for this.

With great war at least there where the advantage of existing players buying it and getting on the new releases list which makes it slightly less impossible to get noticed.
It is also easier to use alternative media sources such as gifting early copies to streamers and the like to garner attention.
So I guess it might work as a paid for expansion especially if tied to other features but as a free update for a 4 year old game on Steam in 2018 I personally doubt it.

Also while it should not be about money it really is. Game developers also need to pay their mortgage, buy food, pay for utilities etc.

[milivoje02]

Each market has its own requirements,which is bigger it's more attractive. I think you have bad marketing in Serbia but it is also conditioned by resources, but you believe me anyone who loves strategies game and that he heard in this case from me(to have a strategy with Serbia and to have the opportunity to develop their units and to be competitive with strong countries) he went to see the product on the steam and a lot of them bought it. Smaller countries such as Serbia are not represented in the games I assume that everyone who loves strategies and live in small countries like Serbia they would be very interested to know they can play and to develop futuristic army and to be competitive with strong countries.
I agree that smaller countries should be less handicapped because it is better and more interesting to play against countries in full force.you might really need the lack of resources to use some units of your community.

Did the delolopers have some impression of the proclaim or propose with the discussion?

[Zuikaku]

I don't get it. Which real life X region designs do you find to be missing? Most of them are in, even some produced in 1 or 2 peaces. Some like Kobac were not produced at all! I can add missing designs but I'm not to keen on adding non existant unit types.

[milivoje02]

I don't get it. Which real life X region designs do you find to be missing? Most of them are in, even some produced in 1 or 2 peaces. Some like Kobac were not produced at all! I can add missing designs but I'm not to keen on adding non existant unit types.

even sold Lazarus and Nora to some countries
Some units that Serbia has developed in the last 6 7 years produced even sold Lazar(1,2,3) and Nora to some countries they did not give Serbia a T group or as an option to develop but exclusively to Yuoglava. List is:
663, "BVT SR-8808 Lazar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazar_3)
761, "BVT SR-8811 Lazar II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazar_3)
2329, "M-84D (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-84) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-84#/med ... 4AB1_2.jpg)
4741, "B-52K1 Nora 155mm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nora_B-52)
4721, "D-30/04 SORA 122mm ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sora_122mm )
7030, "SA-341 Gazelle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_A ... e#Aircraft ) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%A9rospatiale_Gazelle)
I also listed the links as evidence that they exist in Serbian army.

So I suggested to add this unit to Serbia or T Group with Serbia or even better all the units from the X group to add to the T group,Because they are in the T group of the successor state of Yugopslavia,a scenarios with Yugoslavia takes place in cold war and and Serbia and successor countries are in the 2020 World's Scenarios. It is a naturally that the successor state can devolop these units,such as Serbia has developed in reality.I also listed the links as evidence that they exist in Serbian army.

[Zuikaku]

As I have said before, the main problem is X group of regions can still use T group of weapons. BGs shoul'd fix this.

[Nerei]

To me the more accurate option is still moving Croatia, Serbia, Slovenia and the rest of the former Yugoslavia from region group T to region group X not moving unit designs from X to T. That will give them appropriate military hardware while not giving it to Austria, Poland and Finland amongst others.

Moving the equipment while it will give the former Yugoslavia appropriate equipment is also going to make group T and X a messed up mixture and largely make group X a trash version of group T.
It will also go counter to the point of group X which is separating western balkans from group T and giving them a more distinct military arsenal.

There is also create issues in say 1949 with Yugoslavian equipment suddenly not being confined to Yugoslavia but available to most of eastern Europe which is arguably detrimental for accuracy (chances of there ever being separate unit lists for those two are most likely 0%).

Basically moving the regions from T to X will keep them distinct and be far more accurate than moving equipment from X to T.

Naturally if there are other designs that should be moved around and/or added is another issue but blanket movement of designs from X to T is I would say not the solution to the problem of the former Yugoslavia not having the right equipment in 2017-2020

[milivoje02]

In the beginning there was only a T group, because the script is in the Suprem ruelr 2020 gold had start 2020 ear. ll the units were in their place,making Cold War has made a mistake because some units have taken away the T group and are given only to Yugolsavija. The same was done for World War 1 scenario,here the Kingdom of Serbia and Serbia are technologically classified as different countries. if Russia can that he has all the units form Soviet Union,the same should apply to successor states of Yugolsavia. Serbia and Croatia should stay in the T group should stay in the T group because they are intended for this group sinc Suprem ruler 2020. X group was made for Cold War and for the modern scenario 2020 word and global crises is a dead end. By adding units from X to T error which arose the Cold War it would be solved. The Polish should have the option to expose everything from the T group and if hers will add units from the X group. When Iran and Egypt can devolop Soviet unioun(Russian ) 10246, "MiG-25RB Foxbat-B and 9209, "MiG-29A Fulcrum-A why should Polad had a option to devolop a smoe Yugoslavia units if the units from X are transferred to T ? Worldwide countries are have the option to devolope units which are not theirs,Like India T 99 or T 95. Or Germany F 35 mutlirole figher. The T group form Suprem ruler 2020,Global crise and gold,she was better equipped. In Suprem Suler Utimate she suffered a change and exclusion of units which are not replaced,in previous posts I explained. I think that if there is no possibility for creating a new unit to make a compromise with someone existing,as it is for Iran,Egypt,India, and others. I think the X group should only stay in the cold war scenario because it would be very great task to enrich it with an unity and adjust for modern scenario World 2020 and 2020 goloba crises.

[YoMomma]

Yah Germany F35 is a mistake i think, it should be Netherlands (together with the attached technologies).

India and Iran working together with Russia on developping serveral units together. Imho India should have acces to Pak50 interceptors and multi roles since chances are it will mainly be produced in India since Russia already producing 6th generation air units.

To me its all about imagination right. If US attacks Iran, China or North Korea, ofcourse Russia will do everything it can in providing technologies and unit designs. So even if China is producing bad units (With the knowledge that is public accesible) that doesnt mean much in war. Wars in game are over in no time if the AI really wants. That leaves alot to wish for. There is no limit to what US or Russia can have or build, so to me together with bad import/export system (Russia always at war, so no room for exports to friends) there is need to help balancing the game to prevent 90% of the world producing useless worldwide WW2 and CW units which they then export because they dont want them.

For that reason Serbia should be given the mig29 multi role, because it already has the unit, cloose relations with Russia and together with a decent mid air AA unit it will make them alot more competetive without being unrealisticly overpowered. Now all you need is 3 interceptors and 7 4th generation fighter bombers and you can wipe Serbia from the map within a week.

Thing is tho, in 2015 it was nothing is wrong until 5 years from now, now its adding designs doesnt make us money, or game is 4 years old, so basicly expectations of people prefering 2020 are being used? Without that spetsnaz youtube guy with 3 viewers adressing Egypt where developpers didnt know how fast to help him. Some of the features are very nice, like modding tools, but it's not just units, also economy is neglected for sometimes 15 years. India and China are producing enough food with China even exporting. So that 20% production of demand really needs work on together with GDP development. On the other hand for some reason Africa is mass producing food, while IRL they risk their lives to live illegaly in Europe. Now there is only 1 thing that can get this game semi realistic and that is if whole community is working together on something they all agree on. Watching topics on this forum thats basicly impossible without good management from BG.

[Buzzbrad]

I think half the problem stems from BG still not having added the Yugoslavia group to the Successor states arms selection. Likely this is a product of the Yugoslavia group being introduced long after 2020 and when 2020 was rolled into Ultimate they failed to properly update states such as Serbia.

That said keep in mind that as YoMomma said there is a limit to the number of possible tech-trees or region groups. There can be 255 different regions in a game but there are a hardcap of 31 region groups which forces some compromises.

In the case of Yugoslavia it could really be called Western Balkans or Yugoslavia and successor states. Personally my vote would be on "Western Balkans". It would cover the same area without being specifically tied to Yugoslavia and at this point group X really is more than just Yugoslavia.

Honestly though compared to some of the other groups the Yugoslavia group is fairly good and confined geographically.
BG just needs to use it properly and give Serbia and the rest access to it which would give Serbia, Croatia etc. more appropriate arms without giving it to Poland and Finland (seriously why is Finland Eastern Europe and not Northern?!) which adding equipment from the Yugoslavia group to Eastern Europe would do.

I am looking into this and will keep you posted.

[milivoje02]

I think half the problem stems from BG still not having added the Yugoslavia group to the Successor states arms selection. Likely this is a product of the Yugoslavia group being introduced long after 2020 and when 2020 was rolled into Ultimate they failed to properly update states such as Serbia.

That said keep in mind that as YoMomma said there is a limit to the number of possible tech-trees or region groups. There can be 255 different regions in a game but there are a hardcap of 31 region groups which forces some compromises.

In the case of Yugoslavia it could really be called Western Balkans or Yugoslavia and successor states. Personally my vote would be on "Western Balkans". It would cover the same area without being specifically tied to Yugoslavia and at this point group X really is more than just Yugoslavia.

Honestly though compared to some of the other groups the Yugoslavia group is fairly good and confined geographically.
BG just needs to use it properly and give Serbia and the rest access to it which would give Serbia, Croatia etc. more appropriate arms without giving it to Poland and Finland (seriously why is Finland Eastern Europe and not Northern?!) which adding equipment from the Yugoslavia group to Eastern Europe would do.

I am looking into this and will keep you posted.

If something like that It's done,let it be taken into account that it is Yugoslavia X group is in the era of cold war 1949-1991 ear. and she will need some fictitious units ore compromiss existing units because it is not foreseen for the 2020+ ears scenario and has holes in essentially all unit departments(no futuristic AA wepons,no no advanced tnak,no advanced aviation,no advanced ships) . The whole theme was created because Serbia and the countries of its group are without some competent ones Tanks, AA units mid ear range and aircraft,so this should be solved by fictitious units or compromises with existing ones which is done with other countries. Joining T and X would be maybe more effective, or the X group if added Serbia and other successor countries to her to get rich with units which they would need in 2020+ scenario. Not to bee make a poor variant of T group.

[Nerei]

Yah Germany F35 is a mistake i think, it should be Netherlands (together with the attached technologies).

The reason Germany can research the F-35 A and C in some situations is that the designs are in group E and there are sandboxes where Germany has access to both group E and G.
Say 1936 Germany will never be able to develop the F-35 as it only has access to G.

Likely the F-35A is in group E due to Turkey being a partner on the program and will be procuring both A and B models.
The F-35C though should likely only be in group U as it is unlikely to see Service outside of the US. The exception would have been if the UK aircraft carrier HMS Prince of Wales had been completed as a CATOBAR carrier so I guess M might be relevant as the UK did at one point consider acquiring the F-35C.
A and B models should probably also be added to group H as Italy is a partner in the F-35 program with some aircraft being assembled locally.
BeNeLux already has access to A and C versions of the F-35 (should probably be B versions instead of C).

India and Iran working together with Russia on developping serveral units together. Imho India should have acces to Pak50 interceptors and multi roles since chances are it will mainly be produced in India since Russia already producing 6th generation air units.

The PAK-FA T-50 (or SU-57 as it is now known) it is available for India to research as are the PAK-FGFA which is a HAL/Sukhoi project related to the Su-57 (though it might never amount to anything so I would say it should probably not be researched in 2020).
I think those as well as the J-20 and J-31 was originally added by Zuikaku.

If something like that It's done,let it be taken into account that it is Yugoslavia X group is in the era of cold war 1949-1991 ear. and she will need some fictitious units ore compromiss existing units because it is not foreseen for the 2020+ ears scenario and has holes in essentially all unit departments(no futuristic AA wepons,no no advanced tnak,no advanced aviation,no advanced ships) . The whole theme was created because Serbia and the countries of its group are without some competent ones Tanks, AA units mid ear range and aircraft,so this should be solved by fictitious units or compromises with existing ones which is done with other countries. Joining T and X would be maybe more effective, or the X group if added Serbia and other successor countries to her to get rich with units which they would need in 2020+ scenario. Not to bee make a poor variant of T group.

I agree there needs to be more futuristic (2020+) designs for region group X (and a few others).
Here is a comparison for of a few region groups and their number of unit designs with a YearAvailable greater than 2000 (or 100 to be exact as 1900 is 0)
H = 43
X = 59
F = 93
G = 98
T = 138
E = 199
R = 221
U = 276

Note this is not an analysis of the designs just the raw numbers. The designs could be good or bad and there can be unit types completely missing I have not checked.

Keeping region group T on the former Yugoslavia sould increase the number of buildable designs by 91.

So yes I agree more futuristic designs is needed for region group X.

[milivoje02]

Yah Germany F35 is a mistake i think, it should be Netherlands (together with the attached technologies).

The reason Germany can research the F-35 A and C in some situations is that the designs are in group E and there are sandboxes where Germany has access to both group E and G.
Say 1936 Germany will never be able to develop the F-35 as it only has access to G.

Likely the F-35A is in group E due to Turkey being a partner on the program and will be procuring both A and B models.
The F-35C though should likely only be in group U as it is unlikely to see Service outside of the US. The exception would have been if the UK aircraft carrier HMS Prince of Wales had been completed as a CATOBAR carrier so I guess M might be relevant as the UK did at one point consider acquiring the F-35C.
A and B models should probably also be added to group H as Italy is a partner in the F-35 program with some aircraft being assembled locally.
BeNeLux already has access to A and C versions of the F-35 (should probably be B versions instead of C).

India and Iran working together with Russia on developping serveral units together. Imho India should have acces to Pak50 interceptors and multi roles since chances are it will mainly be produced in India since Russia already producing 6th generation air units.

The PAK-FA T-50 (or SU-57 as it is now known) it is available for India to research as are the PAK-FGFA which is a HAL/Sukhoi project related to the Su-57 (though it might never amount to anything so I would say it should probably not be researched in 2020).
I think those as well as the J-20 and J-31 was originally added by Zuikaku.

If something like that It's done,let it be taken into account that it is Yugoslavia X group is in the era of cold war 1949-1991 ear. and she will need some fictitious units ore compromiss existing units because it is not foreseen for the 2020+ ears scenario and has holes in essentially all unit departments(no futuristic AA wepons,no no advanced tnak,no advanced aviation,no advanced ships) . The whole theme was created because Serbia and the countries of its group are without some competent ones Tanks, AA units mid ear range and aircraft,so this should be solved by fictitious units or compromises with existing ones which is done with other countries. Joining T and X would be maybe more effective, or the X group if added Serbia and other successor countries to her to get rich with units which they would need in 2020+ scenario. Not to bee make a poor variant of T group.

I agree there needs to be more futuristic (2020+) designs for region group X (and a few others).
Here is a comparison for of a few region groups and their number of unit designs with a YearAvailable greater than 2000 (or 100 to be exact as 1900 is 0)
H = 43
X = 59
F = 93
G = 98
T = 138
E = 199
R = 221
U = 276

Note this is not an analysis of the designs just the raw numbers. The designs could be good or bad and there can be unit types completely missing I have not checked.

Keeping region group T on the former Yugoslavia sould increase the number of buildable designs by 91.

So yes I agree more futuristic designs is needed for region group X.

The X group could be something like an E group. Adding to the countries that succeeded to Yugoslavia but they to remain in the T Group because their lives continued to live after breakup independently and separately, and every one have policy to come in Europian Union if they are not already. Units are what makes this game interesting and what creates a new desire to pley.
And MIG 29 and MIg 25 to Egipt,Iran,those planes are from 70 and added them as an option to devolop them. These countries are not participating with t USSR in developing during 70th. That's what I suppose filling the gap,and that with good quality. In the same way i would have resolved that serbia does not have a decent one AA milde range unit,Fighter inteseptor,advanced,as an option for development. because when playing with her and against it is an easy target.
I'm afraid that if they did transferring the successor countries of Yugoslavia into a separate group to get a very little attention from the developers and to sing one of the poorer variants of eastern European groups. because the Eastern European group did not get anything new in relation to other groups,they got a unit outflow in the Yugoslavian group,The Su 34 Multi Role is removed,although it was the only decent plane on technology moredn arfict 2,and a tank 2486, "Altay is removed
without a replacement. I'm afraid that experimenting with the shifting of countries from the group to the group judging by the attention of Eastern Europe and Serbia she could go with even more holes in the unit than she now has. So I think adding units is simpler and less risky. Because I was very disappointed when I noticed all the units were thrown out of the technological group T and Serbia when I switched with the Suprem ruler 2020 gold on Suprem ruler Ultimate.
I have nothing against Egypt, Iran, Germany,having options to devolop units that may not be theirs,because if I have a hole it needs to be filled,Let us fill in the holes with units in Serbia and Eastern Europe in the same way. it will be more interesting for people who play against Serbia and Eastern Europe and the people who play with them.

[YoMomma]

Netherlands should not only have access to F35, but also all the technologies and design researched (its in use right now), since some parts are manufactured locally (radar), and seeing the history of F16 they should have the most modern variants.

[milivoje02]

Netherlands should not only have access to F35, but also all the technologies and design researched (its in use right now), since some parts are manufactured locally (radar), and seeing the history of F16 they should have the most modern variants.

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/f-35.html
Are all the global partners have it in the game ?

Serbia has a research center and an ammunition factory in Belgrade, which also has a car and ammunition factory in Kragujevac, none of them are on the map.

[milivoje02]

What devolopers have to say and suggest as a solution to a given topic how to improve Serbia and the T group with units?