how to buy an ally (instruction)

[SMArty]

Allies are essential, because ally's money is actually your money - by some strange logic they buy your goods at up to 10x price and sell theirs at 1/10 price. When your ally tell you "buy my ore at 10x price" you can say "f*** off", but in a mirror situation ally cannot say that to you. Same happens when you buy something at 1/10 price from you ally - even if it is the same ore you sold yesterday. So the cash flows to you, just because you are disbalanced game god.

As I showed here http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 78&t=25228
it is possible to buy any nation as ally. The method is partially cheating, so I started giving money as a gift and found exact formula how much cash you need for a nation with 0 dip and civ ratings for you and CB=100%, at all settings very hard, no spheres of influence, sandbox 1941. So far the most effective method is to automate mouse for giving target nation the correct sum 30 times in a single script - because game can remember your last 30 offers and total sum of gifts usually grows if you try to give more money per offer and make the process faster, so "30 times" way is the most cost-effective.

And for any of your 30 offers you must give to target nation
(Population)*(GDP/c)*k dollars

"k" is some multiplier, presumably dependent from your WM reputation - it is 0.03 when you start game, and it is decreasing slowly to 0.01 in the process.

So if Guatemala have 2,1 mln population and GDP/C = 562$ and absolutely hate you, you can still ally them if you give 2.1*562*0.03=$35m 30 times. Total sum may be decreased if you are ready to offer them "mutual defense" (20% discount), or after elections/riots when new government sympathizes you (75% discount). Only money matters, nothing else.

It is the key for Germany in 1936 campaign - just ally Iran, Iraq and Sauds in the first 30 days, and you'll have no problems with fuel. India, Mexico, Indonesia and China are best if you have excess production.

[Kristijonas]

Smarty Thanks for sharing. Wish there was some real world logic behind the games economy and diplomacy.

[JollyGoodBork]

Typical supreme ruler diplomacy.
Armies don't matter, strategical position doesn't matter, common enemies don't matter, alliances with the enemy of a country doesn't matter, spheres barely matter, your economic base doesn't matter etc...

It's only about giving away a certain amount of money
And that's about the only thing the alliance you're getting will be about too. Because alliances aren't about protecting each other in the case of war, but about ripping each ther off in trade deals.
Germany attacks britain? Canada and Australia don't give a ****)
Doesn't matter too much thou, the AI's never ally each other either

And nothing in diplomacy is random. Not at all. You'll see the same wars over and over... France vs China and Germany vs Finland... wars with no cb, yet still they occur every game! And Germany doesn't even invade Finland! ...while France invades China and wins..

Diplomacy, bad military and diplomatic AI (can't use artillery, can barely not do naval battles, doesn't coordinate it's forces, produces too little infantry and doesn't protect against naval invasions) and insufficient testing and balancing (especially when it comes to military, Germany defeats SU, China defeats Japan and France beats China) are the main parts of what makes this game (which has a lot of potential) a game that cannot even be compared to the best grand strategy games.

[Zuikaku]

Smarty Thanks for sharing. Wish there was some real world logic behind the games economy and diplomacy.

You are right! Real world countries generally hates money. Money definitely can not buy influence or favourable relations in real world

[JollyGoodBork]

Influence and good relations , yes.

But the opportunity to pay one tenth of the real price every time you trade with them? No.

And I think that its weird that money is the only thing theh see in a military alliance. It should be... I dunno... a military alliance?

Ans there ARE other ways to increase relations in the real world, not only giving away a certain amoung of money a certain amount of times.
I do think that some treaties increase relations a little bit, and so does supporting actions.

that is very good. More of that

[Kristijonas]

Smarty Thanks for sharing. Wish there was some real world logic behind the games economy and diplomacy.

You are right! Real world countries generally hates money. Money definitely can not buy influence or favourable relations in real world

Yes they hate money so they try to sell everything they got for as little as possible and then buy the goods back for much more money than they sold it for.

[JollyGoodBork]

Smarty Thanks for sharing. Wish there was some real world logic behind the games economy and diplomacy.

You are right! Real world countries generally hates money. Money definitely can not buy influence or favourable relations in real world

Yes they hate money so they try to sell everything they got for as little as possible and then buy the goods back for much more money than they sold it for.

this.

THIS.

[ZEvans96]

My allies always help me in war, I am not sure why people are saying theirs don't. As Serbia I was in war with Bulgaria and Romania, Poland and Hungary sent their entire armies, my only other ally Russia was busy fighting NATO and SK.

[YoMomma]

You would expect whole NATO/CAS to help especially US/Russia.

[ZEvans96]

In my recent games I have seen that a lot, especially USA. They move through Taiwan, Japan, SK to invade China and Russia. Russia usually doesn't help in my games because they are busy in their own wars and often don't have the troops to send.

[JollyGoodBork]

But they never declare war do they? They just help you without making a declaration of war.

That's the problem. Especially since their treaty thingy decreases.

Another problem with allies is that the AI's don't make any with each other

[YoMomma]

yes, thats a problem, only Russia and China get punished for declaring war because they do it on all their neighbours without any sign of a single brain, but nooo US is the good guy.

I saw last patch things got improved a bit tho, thats nice, but still not enough.

[JollyGoodBork]

I finally got an alliance with the UK as France! FINALLY!

It didn't matter how much diplomatically delighted they where with me, or how many treaties we had.

I just had to give them 8504 MILLION DOLLARS

Which for comparison was 90.64 percent of my budget.

What a splendid diplomacy system we have there!

And the fun thing is that I already had all treaties included in "formal alliance"...
So... yeah. 90.64 percent of your budget for a treaty which you technically already have, and that in reality costed the french nothing.7


And even though I am their ally I am still not counted as allies alligned



Edit:

Tested and retested several times. Uk won't declare war if I am attacked.

Great that I gave them those 8504 dollars then!

[SMArty]

everything is just as it have to be.

uk is rich country with high population, so you need that much money to ally them. as i mentioned, the only thing that matters is money.

you will be "allies aligned" when you will trade much with blue aligned countries (especially USA, as the only country with fixed unconditionally 100% blue aligned) and will not trade with reds. if you trade with both spheres equally, you'll be neutral forever. the only thing that matters is money, not alliances.

when ally attacked and you have "mutual defence" with them, it still up to you to join war or not, same with AI. When AI decide, it may choose not to join war.

HOWEVER. Ally with MutDef will send its troops to patrol your territory, if have access to it, and have troops to spare. And when its troops encounter your enemy, they will attack it and capture territory for you. France captured Italy for me that way, i just have to battle for first hexes of territory.

[JollyGoodBork]

everything is just as it have to be.

uk is rich country with high population, so you need that much money to ally them. as i mentioned, the only thing that matters is money.

you will be "allies aligned" when you will trade much with blue aligned countries (especially USA, as the only country with fixed unconditionally 100% blue aligned) and will not trade with reds. if you trade with both spheres equally, you'll be neutral forever. the only thing that matters is money, not alliances.

when ally attacked and you have "mutual defence" with them, it still up to you to join war or not, same with AI. When AI decide, it may choose not to join war.

HOWEVER. Ally with MutDef will send its troops to patrol your territory, if have access to it, and have troops to spare. And when its troops encounter your enemy, they will attack it and capture territory for you. France captured Italy for me that way, i just have to battle for first hexes of territory.

Well then I'm going to go ahead and say that in a ww2 game if the UK doesn't join a war between France and Germany, even though they do have a great relationship with France and volatility is high, then there's a bit of a problem.
Ps: they didn't send any units either. No expiditionary forces, no air support, nothing.