Point of nuclear power plants?

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KirinFrost
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Point of nuclear power plants?

Post by KirinFrost »

As stated above. I noticed that they cost so much more than coal power plants and in terms of maintenance costs, much higher as well.

So whats the point of researching and building them in the first place?
Rhaycen
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Re: Point of nuclear power plants?

Post by Rhaycen »

Honestly, since Coal is so plenty and there doesn't seem to be any negatives to burning massive amounts of fossil fuel ... just use coal.
Fistalis
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Re: Point of nuclear power plants?

Post by Fistalis »

Rhaycen wrote:Honestly, since Coal is so plenty and there doesn't seem to be any negatives to burning massive amounts of fossil fuel ... just use coal.
Pretty much this. I assume (rightfully or wrongly) that the original stats and balance was with the idea of implementing pollution on a deeper level. Somewhere along the line pollution was scrapped but likely too far into the process to go back and attempt to rebalance everything else.

As a side note I COULD be wrong but some buildings which would be considered pollution causers DO raise the cost of your environment social costs.. (a stop gap for pollution integration) but even if this is true I don't believe it raises it enough to offset the benefits of going with coal.

To get a definitive word on the WHAT if anything affects the enviromental social costs we would need word from george since its likely Balt doesn't remember the specifics of something that was implemented so long ago. (if george ever provided him with them in the first place.)

As usual Anyone from BG is welcome to correct me as needed :wink:
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GIJoe597
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Re: Point of nuclear power plants?

Post by GIJoe597 »

One benefit that comes to mind immediately is manpower. If you have a limited work force, Nuclear will produce more power with fewer people working the plants and mines. It is also a "higher wage" job, which hopefully means your citizens get more pay, (higher Maint costs of plant), and in turn they can purchase more domestically, fueling your economy and taxes.

Shrugs
KirinFrost
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Re: Point of nuclear power plants?

Post by KirinFrost »

I will keep all these in mind then. Thanks :D
Cutlass
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Re: Point of nuclear power plants?

Post by Cutlass »

GIJoe597 wrote:One benefit that comes to mind immediately is manpower. If you have a limited work force, Nuclear will produce more power with fewer people working the plants and mines. It is also a "higher wage" job, which hopefully means your citizens get more pay, (higher Maint costs of plant), and in turn they can purchase more domestically, fueling your economy and taxes.

Shrugs
Another thing to point out. With nuclear power producing more energy per plant and therefore per hex, you use less real estate going with nuclear power. Where this can be a major factor is if you like to locate your power plants in your cities. In the real world there are a variety of good reasons why one probably wouldn't want to build nuclear power plants in their population centers. But those reasons do not apply in the Supreme Ruler series of games. So, given that the real world disadvantages don't exist, and it is possible to give power plants in general a production advantage by locating them in cities; then one can arguably get somewhat ahead by building nuclear power plants in their cities. But building power plants in population centers also makes a limited resource (the 6 build locations per city hex) a premium item thus again emphasizing the need to build plants that produce the most energy possible.

Personally my solution (at least for SR 2020) was to build a few nuclear power plants but to delay going whole hog with them until I had developed fusion technology. Then build fusion in preference to nuclear while researching cold fusion technology. Also, nuclear power plants are only useful if your region produced uranium. If you have to buy your uranium on the world market you are better off sticking with a mix of coal and possibly hydro power. Work on advanced solar when it becomes available, and push for fusion as fast as you can.
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GreenGoblin
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Re: Point of nuclear power plants?

Post by GreenGoblin »

FISSILE MATERIAL FOR THE BOMB 8)
KirinFrost
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Re: Point of nuclear power plants?

Post by KirinFrost »

I thought solar produced very little energy?
Cutlass
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Re: Point of nuclear power plants?

Post by Cutlass »

KirinFrost wrote:I thought solar produced very little energy?
That depends. There are two different types of power plants which are "solar". One type are the "Power, Other" plants. They represent what is pretty much available today in terms of alternate energy production. They are not cost effective and the only reason to build them would be because you literally have no other alternative.

Then there are the "Advanced Solar" power plants. In the SR2020 game you needed to have the Stirling Engine technology and the Stirling Solar Collector technology to be able to build them. The Advanced Solar power plant is an ecofreak's Holy Grail in terms of energy production. Even without any of the technologies that would boost alternate energy production it produces as much power as a coal plant for less cost. With those technologies it can produce almost twice as much energy as a coal plant.
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mfisher12
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Re: Point of nuclear power plants?

Post by mfisher12 »

Fistalis wrote:Pretty much this. I assume (rightfully or wrongly) that the original stats and balance was with the idea of implementing pollution on a deeper level. Somewhere along the line pollution was scrapped but likely too far into the process to go back and attempt to rebalance everything else.
The Civ games used to have pollution, too. But it was more of a pain than it was worth, and more easily integrated into other markers than making green hexes :)
Thadwookie
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Re: Point of nuclear power plants?

Post by Thadwookie »

in the unit folder, their is a modifier that states " causes pollution " so its in the engine how much is implemented, dunno? So who knows what it really modifies, if that answer is a 1. meaning causes pollution : !!!
BlackSoulReaper
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Re: Point of nuclear power plants?

Post by BlackSoulReaper »

Thadwookie wrote:in the unit folder, their is a modifier that states " causes pollution " so its in the engine how much is implemented, dunno? So who knows what it really modifies, if that answer is a 1. meaning causes pollution : !!!
It just goes to show just how much untapped potential this game has.
georgios
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Re: Point of nuclear power plants?

Post by georgios »

GIJoe597 wrote:One benefit that comes to mind immediately is manpower. If you have a limited work force, Nuclear will produce more power with fewer people working the plants and mines. It is also a "higher wage" job, which hopefully means your citizens get more pay, (higher Maint costs of plant), and in turn they can purchase more domestically, fueling your economy and taxes.

Shrugs

How do we know about the manpower of each production building?
nicholas70
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Re: Point of nuclear power plants?

Post by nicholas70 »

Shames me to say there's no point to these power plants presently. I don't even think the man power issue applies as some suggest due to the very high maintenance costs associated with nuclear power plants, and that's not to speak of the up front costs of building them. I personally think it wouldn't be that hard to revisit pollution as has been suggested to help correct these issues. I think simply adding a negative supply modifier to coal and oil plants would be a great way to address the issue that I wouldn't think would require a major rework of the game mechanics. I think adding a -2% for oil power and -3% for coal seems fair and you could conversely add a small positive modifier for clean power techs. I also think these modifiers should go up in multiples, meaning if you have more then a couple of coal plants in one hex that hexes output will start to really take a hit.
georgios
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Re: Point of nuclear power plants?

Post by georgios »

Supply modifier would affect the output of the power plants themselves. So it is simpler to cut their output.

I think that the problem will be solved with better balance of the nuclear energy costs. This is easy.

The difficult thing is uranium price. It must have very low mining price but very high selling. So regions having uranium reserves would produce competitive electricity. But if the price is low, then regions without uranium could buy cheap uranium and produce cheap electricity too. If you set high production price, the uranium owners simply have much power for themselves but not competitive to export.

The same happens with all advanced power plants. They are for rich sustainable nations which don't need to trade with the other world.
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