Germany 1936

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Anthropoid
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Re: Germany 1936

#16 Post by Anthropoid » Feb 03 2015

Zuikaku wrote:History has proven that basic Bf-109(E) was superior fighter to Bf-110(B). So, Bf-109 air attack ratings should be 6(low) and 6 (medium). Bf-110(B) should be 5(low) and 4(medium). More firepower does not mean better air attack, since all these guns are useless if you are having hard time bringing the target into the gunsights.
Yep. I concur.

I'm a bit puzzled that, if you go for the Bf 109 tech path (which makes sense to get it first from an historical standpoint), the first Bf 110 model that gets 'unlocked' is the Bf 110C, not the Bf 110B.

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Re: Germany 1936

#17 Post by Balthagor » Feb 03 2015

The B and C have different prereqs, but I thought they had overlapping paths. Haven't checked recently.
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Re: Germany 1936

#18 Post by bvb » Feb 03 2015

Having a maneuvarability stat as well would be an interesting addition. Use it vs the opponent to influence both hitting and being hit by target. This way a heavy hitter like a late model 110 has a high firepower, can direct it against a B-17 fairly easily, but not so well against a P-51. A 109G can land hits on the B-17, not hit as hard but also a bit less vulnerable to their defensive fire, and be much more capable in a scrap with the Mustang than their twin engine friends.

Maneuver vs Maneuver to land the hit, A2A vs Air Defense to see how bloody the targets nose is.

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Re: Germany 1936

#19 Post by Anthropoid » Feb 03 2015

Balthagor wrote:The B and C have different prereqs, but I thought they had overlapping paths. Haven't checked recently.
Yeah I just realized that I can already pursue the designs for Bf 109s and Bf 110Bs.

I bet you get requests for a "Tech Tree" quite often eh? :D

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Re: Germany 1936

#20 Post by Balthagor » Feb 03 2015

Chris Latour
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Re: Germany 1936

#21 Post by Anthropoid » Feb 05 2015

Sounds great in theory but what is the trick to "viewing it" in Internet Explorer?

My Germany play is still ongoing and as always, a couple 'botched' attempts have taught me a lot about the ecology of the scenario.

It became pretty clear to me which techs to focus on in order to (a) get to be able to build the units I want as quickly as possible; (b) get the resource boosting and infrastructure boostig techs; (c) fullfill my campaign requirements; and (d) build up a foundation to have an honest chance go beat the U.S. in the late 1940s.

So right now it is Dec 1938, I've annexed Austria and Sudetenland and have a standing army of about 350,000. Mostly mobile Infantry, half track, tanks and self-propelled arty, but also 15 to 20 each of Bf 109 and Bf110. Still cannot build stukas but Do-13s will suffice. My sub fleet is up around 60, and I've got two solid "Cap" battlegroups, so I should be able to play "geurilla naval war" pretty well.

I've been trying to provoke a war with Hungary. They have a lot of oil fields and it sure would be nice to have those as part of Germany proper. Sent about 10 spies in to Hungary to do sabotage and they have had a mixture of effects. I've also sent in a few air patrols to provoke the neutral fire thing, but so far my CB hasn't really gone up.

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Re: Germany 1936

#22 Post by SentosKarum » Feb 05 2015

Better be quick about it my game Romania decided to DoW practically everybody - which didn't matter as they didn't declare on anyone they had a border with.

Then they allied with a few neighbors with coasts and now I have the US as neighbor - including former Hungaria.

Sidenote: US now also occupies Albania as Italy was unable to conquer them despite the war starting on schedule...

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Re: Germany 1936

#23 Post by Anthropoid » Feb 05 2015

Uhh . . . 11 Jan 1938. Japan has been eliminated!?

Seems like there are some balance issues in the China-Japan area eh!?

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Re: Germany 1936

#24 Post by Zuikaku » Feb 05 2015

Anthropoid wrote:Uhh . . . 11 Jan 1938. Japan has been eliminated!?

Seems like there are some balance issues in the China-Japan area eh!?
I quit all of my games untill next update cause of this and AI not researching units...
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!

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Re: Germany 1936

#25 Post by Anthropoid » Feb 05 2015

Ah bummers. Weird though, this game is like what? A year old? Or is it only more like 6 months? Was this stuff in the original or is it bugs that have either been introduced or revealed in subsequent patches post-release?

I think I'll soldier on a bit longer. I can resort over to SR2020 if this one seems to be totally over the top. But given China has not only managed to RESIST complete annihilation by Japan, but eliminated Japan itself! :o :D . . . well I guess I can forge ahead with whatever "ahistorical" schemes I have as Der Fuhrer without any concern that I'll spoil my game by taking it in too ahistorical of a direction.

ADDIT: oh btw, what is the trick to get my fighter's to escourt my bombers? I cannot recall exactly how to do that. Do I put them in a battlegroup, or somehow use the escort command?

Also some other 'user interface type questions:'

1. I see there is a way to: right-click, select all units in a hex, then filter to one of the types (land, air, sea). But is there any way to:
a. Select only units of a given type in a hex, or
b. Select all units of a given type and have them highlighted on the map?
c. Select all units of a given type in any of the inventory windows (reserves, or whatever) and not have others show up? Seems like in SR2020, you could do these sorts of things, no?

2. Any way to breakdown the reserves window by unit type (infantry, arty, recon, armor, etc) the way you could in SR2020?

3. Seems like there was a way in SR2020 (though my memory may be faulty) to have a bunch of units in a hex, say for example 6 or 7 infantry that were all small enough to fit into one or more transport aircraft units based in the hex, and tell an airplane to pickup one specific unit? Seems like in SRU, all you can do is tell a transport "Load Unit --> Okay" and then it loads which ever one it wants to load?

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Re: Germany 1936

#26 Post by Emeg » Feb 06 2015

Anthropoid wrote:
Zuikaku wrote:Bf-110 is also way overpowered in air attack ratings compared to Bf-109...
Yeah, I think you are correct. It appears that Metal Alloy Airframes (which Germany can research at start of 1936 campaign) along with "Avionics Technology Improvements (which Germany can research after completing "Applied Radio Detection") opens up the Bf 110C and the Bf 109. (Skipping the Bf 110B for some reason). So, if you bother to look up what it takes, you can most definitely be building Bf 109s aplenty by 1937. So it would seem that my call for the tech tree to be reviewed is not necessary and merely reflects my own failure to do so (or perhaps the lack of a comprehensive tech tree summary anywhere that doesn't require navigating up and downstream to find the gem unit designs! :x :P )

The Bf 110C outclasses the Bf 109 in the most important respects: faster, longer range, better attack strength in low and mid-air combat, and identical defense values in all contexts. Only downside is each squadron costs 79t of mil goods versus 29t for Bf109, and perhaps slightly more annual maintenance.

The actual combat statistics in-game are:
Bf 110C
Range 2410km
Speed 504 km/h
Profile 25
Low Air 6
Mid Air 7
Air Defense 5

Bf 109
Range 648km
Speed 440 km/h
Profile 30
Low Air 4
Mid Air 5
Air Defense 5
If manoeuvrability of (fighter) planes is modelled in the Air Defence statistic then the air defence level of the Bf 109 should be much higher then the air defence for the Bf 110C. So.. or the in-game air-defence statistic of the Bf 110C, compared to the Bf 109, is set incorrect, or.. we are missing in the game the important statisic for airplanes .. agility.. used to calculate if a hit can be placed or avoided. In real the Bf110c was not a good dog fighter compared to the Spitfire, the Hurricane and the Bf 109 due its inferior agility.

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Re: Germany 1936

#27 Post by Anthropoid » Feb 06 2015

Yep good summary Emeg. Bf 110 was quite good at attacking bombers (as long as they didn't have nimble escorts to protect them) and rather good at ground attack, right?

As it is presently, I'm going to barely bother building Bf 109s as the Bf 110s are just so much better. That ain't right. It should be obvious that the Bf 109 is the better thing to build for air superiority, and the Bf 110 is not-too-close second that is useful for other roles such as attack incoming bombers and/or ground support (though obviously nowhere near as good at GS as the Stuka line).

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Re: Germany 1936

#28 Post by Anthropoid » Feb 07 2015

So I'm starting to figure out how to use all these nifty filters and such, and also the Ctrl-left click combo to add things to the list. Pretty nifty stuff.

However what is the difference between say "Add type to list" and "Add type to list in view?"

Played up to about August 1939 now. Invaded Poland on either June or July 4 and Poland was eliminated by about July 25 1939. Strange thing, and I'm not sure if this is WAD or not: NONE of Poland's allies declared war on me (Germany). I am positive that both Denmark and France were allies of Poland and I was all set up with defensive forces on those border areas but nothing. Ah well, if I can take out the Russkies first all the better for me :D

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Re: Germany 1936

#29 Post by bvb » Feb 08 2015

In view means currently on the screen. Eg if you have just Italy on the screen, all of that type currently in Italy would be selected, rather than all of that type deployed anywhere on the map.

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Re: Germany 1936

#30 Post by Anthropoid » Feb 08 2015

Do air bases and air fields have some sort of stacking limit?

I have looked and looked and cannot find anything specific for SRU saying anything of the sort, and I have tried to use in game experimenting and cannot tell for sure.

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