The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

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MattTheDamon
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by MattTheDamon »

1 What I would like the most is more transparency and accuracy of the market,taxes, and economics. Would like to know exactly what all taxes do and affect.If there a statisctic I would like it to mean something. As far as I can tell inflation doesnt do much of anything. Real actual supply and demand for goods on the world market with finite amounts based on what countries need. In my games as us it doesnt matter my gdp/production costs the market prices always follow. I have tried to lower my gdp with max taxes and dom prices market follows my production cost no matter what. I have switched all power to hyrdo and shut all other power plants off and I dont notice a difference in production cost. At the same time I can cycle between hydro,petrol,and coal and production cost doesnt change. If i turn off all power plants and buy all my power then the market goes up and so does my production cost(gdp in the red at same time). Why does it do that?

2 Reduce hex size to more realistically sim ranges of units. Maybe 1 hex 1 or 2 km. Any alternative would work I really dislike units either have 1 range or 2 range.This would allow better standoff capabilities for units that were designed for this like arty. Units like the m113 that only has a machine gun would have a much lower effective range then say a bradly with a 25 mm cannon. Vice versa with infantry. Stealth could be used more effectively for say infantry. Infantry would be stealthy in woods ect. Would nullify armored range advantage against infantry in those cases. Hopefully this would allow you guys to program the ai for specific positioning of unit types like arty/aa instead of them face smashing them into front lines.

3 Ai improvements. Mainly with handling army but probably economics and infrastructure as well. I think representing unit range will help in unit management. I am also fine with the ai having an information advantage to help it decide things. Honestly the ai can never match a person so its not an advantage or a cheat imo just so long as its not to blaringly obvious like 100 units magically teleport to your forces. You can go to war with mexico and have hundreds of units on the frontlines and they send little bands of units while their army is spread out over their nation. Would like the ai to make an attempt to match your forces on frontlines better. If there is a threat of war ai should be massing its entire army on your borders only leaving a skeleton to defend cities and whatnot.

4 Some thoughts on the economics of the game. Some may say that if the ai is good at building factories and whatnot the world market will dry up. One idea I have is to tie unemployement and your nation pop to how much work you can support. Right now I think unemployment mainly affects your effenciency but you can build hundreds of everything if you want. This would help keep a demand for different goods thruout the world as nations would not have the manpower to produce everything. Maybe having spies that sabotage or natural disasters that destroy factories would create shortages. Even dar tied to riots that damage or destroy. Random events that happen irl to create shortages.

5QOL When trying to transport units make it easier. Like a transport plane trying to carry a unit but its to heavy. Auto split and merge after it arrives. I cant be bothered to use any unit that I need to split my most basic infatry to transport its way tedious. Same thing with transport trucks. Allow them to auto tow/carry split and merge if need be. QOL on selecting turnin on/off/deploy all that jazz. Less clicks pls.

Interface revamp.

Pathing fixes for all units especially ships.

6 Diplomacy treaties could be expanded and explained better.Free Trade what does that do exactly and how am I benefiting from it? Same with criminal exp and labor force?

7 Air ai needs to be upgraded. If a unit calls for a supply plane can we have fighters escort auto? The ai needs to be way more active with its air force in all areas.Better use of missiles from ai and easier for a player to use missiles on platforms.

8 would like the ai to make better use of nukes against grouped up armies and deathstacks. Maybe strategic bombers act more of an anti death stack by doing more damage to units based on how many are in a hex. Also have the ai use this tactic against a human player. Ai should set up fighter escorts with bombers and other aircraft.

9 comb over your database to correct any unit that need be based on new mechanics and real world stats.

10 engine upgrades. The use of all cores ect.

11 make it as moddable as possible.
Last edited by MattTheDamon on Jan 28 2021, edited 2 times in total.
SGTscuba
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by SGTscuba »

MattTheDamon wrote:
Jan 27 2021


5QOL When trying to transport units make it easier. Like a transport plane trying to carry a unit but its to heavy. Auto split and merge after it arrives. I cant be bothered to use any unit that I need to split my most basic infatry to transport its way tedious. Same thing with transport trucks. Allow them to auto tow/carry split and merge if need be. QOL on selecting turnin on/off/deploy all that jazz. Less clicks pls.
^ this if doable
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Rosalis
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by Rosalis »

And the rest not? I find it very usefull feedback from Matt and most of it was working just fine or atleast better in SR2020.

The only thing is his US vs Mexico example, Lets say US is in a passive state and doesnt produce more troops and lets say the ai build military facilities (again), Mexico could have thousands of units more, but 1 stack of Bradley's will kill them all in the hands of a player. So improvements to defensive ai stance and ai switching stance in what situation it will find is needed. Entrench the most important suply lines aka cities to the front line, use defensive terrain, build trenches only then an isolated Mexico has a chance to drag the war on for a while. Then there could also be a situation that China and/or Russia arms Mexico. Proven with good relations (and bad with US) this should happen in like 1 of the 20 games. Make infrastucture aka treaties next to your enemies. Alot of conflicts start this way.

1 save of mine where i only observe and setup red sphere regions and infrastructure US is at war for atleast 20 years and lost more troops then Mexico. All what was needed is good designs 5 trenches to block off access and entrench them with the cities. 4-5 units per entrench is enough to stop the US ai army.
MattTheDamon
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by MattTheDamon »

I agree Rosalis. Changing stances and letting the ai know what its up against even if your in a passive state(seeing your reserve units) could go along way for it to make decisions to be competitive against a player. Giving units better rl range advantages ,allowing ai to setup defenses, allowing ai to pre position and reinforce lines against potential enemies, switch up tactics, same improvements to ai air force to utilize reinforce and support their frontlines. Also if your have a nation next you with bad relations and the ai can see it has no chance and cant get support to defend itself why not have the ai give you gifts to try and improve relations with you so you dont destroy it or maybe if your aggressive whole regions will want to contain your aggression.

This may be a new system they have to write maybe a bit more along the lins of hoi4 IDk. If you use that model there could be a 2nd or 3rd line(art/aa ect) behind the first for support units to position and supply vehicles. Maybe if any cities or roads/rails that meet any of the lines get fortifications built and extra units assigned to defend or maybe the bulk is used on these points and recon is used between to scout for enemy formations that the ai can respond to when spotted. This may help the ai have a cohesion for its army. Could have a prep bar like hoi4. With the info the ai can decide how much it will need before it advances the frontline or if it just wants to hold. Right now units seem to just random move forward without any regard for anything really.

Giving the ai more info will help it in diplomacy like you are saying. It can decide it needs help and find allies more activly.

Also with diplomacy make better ways to improve relations. Like right now If I want to improve civilian rating I just give a certain amount of food for free over and over and over sometimes 15x to build it up. I would rather setup long term trades that auto improve it over time. The lump sum stuff should be smaller gains imo.

One other thing to help with market shortages is having the ai use bombers(or any other viable means) to cripple another nations factories and infrastructure during wars. This should be a thing the ai is always actively doing and should be made to be an important part of war in the game. Ai should have patrol planes and scouting planes active at all times especially during a war.Just because we may give the ai info on units doesnt mean it should not have to at least act like it has earned it.

I think better simed ranges could help naval gameplay as well. I would like to see a better way to direct your navies and I think in a similair mannor to air the ai needs to be more active. If it were possible to have shipping lanes that you or the ai could attack to destroy goods that you would want to defend would be interesting and create market spikes. I wouldnt be against using cargo ships or transport planes and supply trucks as ways to move goods. They could have pre planned shipping lanes they run and if they cross into unfriendly or neutral territory without transit treat then you can trade with that nation. I would like to see that connected to the world market as well and it all shown to you.This could create a situation where you could completely shut off a nation from the world market would be pretty cool.

Along with bombers and nukes arty should hard counter large stacks of units. It is the most effective way I have found to game the ai. The ai should make players afraid to stack units using these methods. The more units in a hex these should get damage bonus vs those units.

For those that want custom armies I think they could do it in the next gen and keep their current models and database similar to how you make battle groups. We could have a system where you can merge units into 1 army and add whatever you want to it. So I could have 2 m113 1 m60 tank 1 vulcan 2 m109arty and actually merge them into 1 unit. combine their stats and have a system where there is an order of front line and back line or range 1,2,3 ect. Certain units will fall into that line and have ranges and take damage accordingly. For example m113 and m60 would take damage first until destroyed by other line 1 units. Units like arty could be line 2(or range 2) and have a firing range of2 or 3 and damage everything on the opposite side in that range. Arty could have accuracy penalty for the further out it fires so it would do most damge to line one and less to line 2(would need to factor in all other modifiers like day/night/weather/terrain/ect). These armies would need to be able to design and auto create please make thing automated but be able to micro if wanted(that is one thing I like about this game but need more ability to be automated). I understand this would make more ai work but if you could make the ai moddable you could give generic combos and the modders would fill in the rest.This is a way to better simulate supply line I think. You could add supply trucks to these formations and they auto go and get supplies for this formation when they run out giving targets of opportunity. I do like how hoi4 has a battle width simulating the fact you cant have 40 units all attacking on a frontline in one spot at the same time. Would also discourage death stacks. Also this would need to be auto reinforced with units. So if a unit dies it would auto try to replace it(maybe have a setting). Infatry could be auto transported by any supply trucks or helicopters inside the group for faster movement.
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by SGTscuba »

More region letters for the use of unit designs.
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by SGTscuba »

Rosalis wrote:
Jan 28 2021
And the rest not? I find it very usefull feedback from Matt and most of it was working just fine or atleast better in SR2020.

The only thing is his US vs Mexico example, Lets say US is in a passive state and doesnt produce more troops and lets say the ai build military facilities (again), Mexico could have thousands of units more, but 1 stack of Bradley's will kill them all in the hands of a player. So improvements to defensive ai stance and ai switching stance in what situation it will find is needed. Entrench the most important suply lines aka cities to the front line, use defensive terrain, build trenches only then an isolated Mexico has a chance to drag the war on for a while. Then there could also be a situation that China and/or Russia arms Mexico. Proven with good relations (and bad with US) this should happen in like 1 of the 20 games. Make infrastucture aka treaties next to your enemies. Alot of conflicts start this way.

1 save of mine where i only observe and setup red sphere regions and infrastructure US is at war for atleast 20 years and lost more troops then Mexico. All what was needed is good designs 5 trenches to block off access and entrench them with the cities. 4-5 units per entrench is enough to stop the US ai army.
Tbf, I think i've commented on a few of these elsewhere on the forums. The only one I don't think is a good idea is making the hexes any smaller. Obviously if you drop from 16km to 8km hexes you've just made the number of hexes go up by 4x, and this then means 4x the calculations for plenty of things which makes me worry about the performance implications.
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MattTheDamon
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by MattTheDamon »

This is a next gen sru so hopefully if they reduce the hex sizes they could rewrite some of the things your talking about so it doesnt have a massive perf impact.
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by evildari »

MattTheDamon wrote:
Jan 31 2021
This is a next gen sru so hopefully if they reduce the hex sizes they could rewrite some of the things your talking about so it doesnt have a massive perf impact.
an easy "rewrite" would not help it - in current sru you can have an almost empty 2040x2040 map wich runs on a very good system just acceptable in the first years in a no-unit start and very high production times to keep unit count low.

The other extreme: a rather normal map size with less than 2Million hexes but filled with 1million locations: single digit fps (or was it single digit seconds per frame...)

BG would need to find the holy grail of multi-core support and then the minimum spec would be 8-cores at current gen high-end hardware
(maybe they make that nice ascii-version first - i saw on some steam-update page of sru)
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by Balthagor »

At this time, it seems extremely like that we will stay at the 16km/hex scale.
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by MattTheDamon »

Is it possible to simulate ranges? Maybe reduced damage to arty when stacked with other units representing it behind those units?
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by SGTscuba »

MattTheDamon wrote:
Feb 01 2021
Is it possible to simulate ranges? Maybe reduced damage to arty when stacked with other units representing it behind those units?
I think if this is possible, then this would be the way forward. If I recall correctly, this already happens with planes, the closer they are the higher damage they do (talking about modern jets with longer attack ranges). Maybe this could be extended.

I also had a though other than for performance purposes, making the hexes smaller would make the player have a whole lot of extra area to manage, so making hexes smaller probably would be bad from an operational point of view.
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MattTheDamon
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by MattTheDamon »

I was just literally wishing the hexes to be smaller just for the benefits to ranges and battles. The game only need to break it down for this purpose otherwise the hex system is fine imo. Even if you could zoom in and out of a hex kinda like gal ruler does for space and planets just for the purpose of battles and leave all other calc alone. That being said having a tier system could work too. If a piece of arty is all byitself then it would be moved to tier 1 and take all damage. If we went with this kind of system it would make more sense to have a customizable army comp or formation I was talking about earlier. I would think having armies or formations by combining units would make the ai management of units much easier to handle. We would see alot less of towed aa units going to the frontline to die hopefully.I would like to see this optional. Still would like to have the ability to control single units if I want to. This could allow other modifiers like for diff stats attack def/ ect for units that are combined. Like an army defending a hex that has arty in its comp would get a defense bonus to its tier 1 units(idea hard to attack a position while being pounded with shells).A bonus for having infantry with tanks or infantry with tra heli giving a defense bonus to infantry sim heli getting wounded back to base and saving lives ect.

Coupling this with a frontline system like hoi 4 maybe that the ai can use and beefing up the theater and zone control would really beef up the ai. Settings like level of aa in a zone or theater. There are units that would need to sit further back from a frontline and not be attached like aa missiles that have much greater ranges. Probably why you would need a frontline system. You could have a line that is 2 hexes back for ex that these units could be positioned on.
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by Breznev »

My suggestion for new developments for Supreme Ruler
If there is a serious intention from the development team !
For the advancement and development of the game a comprehensive development except in terms of the used engine, maps, equipment designs, and others

First and foremost
I honestly did not understand the turn or the change in the game style that the team did
By creating the game labels "Galactic Ruler"


From my humble point of view, perhaps the member would disagree with me or support me
I think creating "Galactic Ruler" is a mistake, and the development team could have continued working on Supreme Ruler Ultimate
By completely re-updating and developing it in line with new developments in political and military simulation games


We see in the arena of games that simulate politics and the military
A very great development, one that raises the level of realism more and more, and I do not want to give examples here
Considering that the development team does not want to borrow from other similar games


But generally
First, the game engine must be completely changed and modern engines that keep pace with the modern era of strategy games must be used

Second, continued working on a project "Supreme Ruler Ultimate " but It does not necessarily create all the scenarios or sandbox that previously existed
Scenarios and sandbox can be shortened !
the Cold War scenario or sandbox
and creat a new scenario or sandbox the world in 2021

Third
Maps must be changed by creating completely new maps
New maps can be adapted from Google Earth Maps
There are new strategy games that adopt this style of maps to increase the realism of the game and the simulations more and more , And I don't want to mention other strategic games as examples
The development team knows this very well


I know that creating new maps adapted from Google Earth Maps will take a lot of work
But this is required if there is an intention to develop the game

Fourth, re-establishing the military units with 3D models HD in full detail To add more realism to the game


The new strategic games are now paying much attention to the shape and size of military equipment
And there is a great interest in the movement of military vehicles and the movement of their elements in the map during the game
Like designing animated models
For example, you see the tank moving and its cannon moving in a realistic way and firing and making very realistic sounds

And in some games, for example, they give you the ability to organize or form brigades and teams and give you more flexibility in giving any command to military units.
For example, when the order is issued to the battalion commander to defend or attack, he interacts with you and interacts by placing a voice for the battalion commander informing you of his readiness to attack or defend, which gives the game more realism
The same goes for fighter crews. If there is an enemy fighter in your airspace, the crew tells you that they see an enemy fighter and are dealing with it.
The same thing also applies to the ground forces about occupying a province or a state. The commander tells you that he advanced and occupied this part
The same thing for the air defense brigades to monitor any fighter or missile that the battalion commander interacts with and tells you voice that there are air targets that are being dealt with and others

The interaction of military units, except for the land, air or sea
Become very important
Creating interactive units in the game is very important and gives more realism
The same thing as giving the player many options for organizations and military formations is also important
These points should be carefully considered in any future game project




Fifth
Developing more realistic economic options, as is the case in some games
And increase the options more and more
Recently, games are being designed that have realistic and very accurate economic options and give the player more chances in organizing his economy
I know that the economic system used in the game will become difficult, but this is good, and it will increase realism more
The economic system, in any upcoming development of the game, is very important. It must be completely changed and a new economic system must be adopted that mimics the reality


There are other games that I tried recently
It has a very good and realistic economic system
To the extent that the player before taking any economic action, he must calculate a thousand accounts for any action Whatever the type of political system
Dictatorial, communist, democrat, monarchy, or anything else
There are also economic measures that require a vote from parliament in the game, and the measure can be rejected and approved by members of parliament, which in itself is interesting and interesting for any player.

The same goes for establishing, for example, factories, homes, roads, etc.
And the establishment of hospitals, universities, and schools. The models must be realistic, elaborate and interactive in the map

I hope that these points are taken into account and considered well
I mean the point of the economic system in the game


Sixthly
Establishing a political system in the game that simulates reality with the addition of many options, which have become important in strategic games that simulate political and military
Such elections increase the realism in them more and more
Likewise, setting up a parliament, setting up parties, and providing the player with opportunities to choose any party and for the player to follow good political steps to help him win any future elections.
Develop options that support political opposition in other countries, support coups, or work for coups in other countries
This is also an important aspect and it is very realistic
Add the United Nations Council and the Security Council, as well as all international organizations and others
Set options that give the game the right to open an embassy in a specific country or close an embassy
Add multiple options for intelligence and espionage operations

Attention must be paid to the political system in the game and work to add new and realistic options

Finally, I hope that these points are clear
And I hope you take it into account
We hope as soon as possible to start developing the game and put topics in which we, the members, will present our proposals and thank you
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sparky282
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by sparky282 »

I have lots of ideas for this and they litter the thread but one idea I'm having lately is around unit designs

Instead of finding a design you like it could be presented in a request for a unit for example, I might give my requirements to 3 or 4 defense companies and they would come back with designs that fit the criteria I laid out I could then decide which one to research and ultimately build.

In a similar way to what happens in the real world of course you could still trade unit designs if you wish with other countries.
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Re: The Future of Supreme Ruler Development / SR Next Generation

Post by SGTscuba »

Some discussions on naval mines me and Translogan had over on discord.

If the sea was split up into battlezones in a better way than it is in SRU, I could see the same minelaying efficiency being a thing
So travelling through hexes would be more like a chance to sustain damage from a mine
Which could be offset by tech and the boats themselves
Britain for example learned to counter german mines heavily when they recovered a mine in the Thames and they managed to counter magnetic detonation afterwards

yeah, that would make it workable in the same way as hoi, the ai would just then need to learn how/when to go sweep

If it was a dedicated order, e.g. the ship is told to patrol the area in some kind of minesweeping mode, perhaps it could be made to patrol a region
Though how to make the AI make a logical call on when to do minesweeping without suiciding its ships, idk

in SR though, maybe if a ship hits a mine, then maybe it triggers the ai into assembling a minesweeping BG which then goes and patrols the area

Yeah it could inform the AI like "this sea region has enemy mine threats" or something

and the AI would try and mine battlezones off the enemy coast with groups unless they get attacked too much

mines should only be eligible to be placed in a sea region with coast beside it though (Or manually flagged to be allowed in the map editor)
Mines are basically pointless in the open sea out wide
So like the English Channel or Danish Straits would be key places
But east of Bermuda is pointless

maybe we would require more battlezones to do it
maybe have them about the size as the ones in hoi would work quite nicely, but still keep hexes
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