T region group,East Europe Countries,Serbian teh tree.

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milivoje02
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T region group,East Europe Countries,Serbian teh tree.

#1 Post by milivoje02 » Oct 22 2018

Hellow :) I want to ask why new weapons which exist for the last couple of years and they are devoloped in the army of Serbia are classified in Yugoslav research? Those are this wepons : Nora B-52 self-propelled howitzer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nora_B-52),Lazar armored vehicle(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazar_armored_vehicle),M-84AS and M-84AS1(https://www.armyrecognition.com/partner ... 07172.html )(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-84),Aérospatiale Gazelle ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%A9rospatiale_Gazelle ), LRSVM Morava (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LRSVM_Morava ) I think it should if not whole Yugoslav teh tree at least this unit which exist in reality in Serbia teh tree to be added in the Serbia teh tree.
And why there are not samo more units addet from ohter region (russia R and Europe E) to T regions ? Other regions codes (R.G.U.J) have 10-30 options fore each tupe of units,some of them could be added to T regions so it does not look so poor,or add some completely new ones.
I understand you to instruct me to do the editing myself but I would like to see some solution
from developers. I see that eastern European group T experienced very little changes compared to other regions grop,it seems like there are left out.
Best Regards 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O

YoMomma
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Re: T region group,East Europe Countries,Serbian teh tree.

#2 Post by YoMomma » Oct 22 2018

More countries then the alphabet counts basicly. Same thing can be said about many other tech tree's.

Best you can hope for is give list of Russian unit numbers from unit database which are exported to Serbia with sources and developpers can add it to the Serbian CVP file.
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milivoje02
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Re: T region group,East Europe Countries,Serbian teh tree.

#3 Post by milivoje02 » Oct 22 2018

YoMomma wrote:
Oct 22 2018
More countries then the alphabet counts basicly. Same thing can be said about many other tech tree's.

Best you can hope for is give list of Russian unit numbers from unit database which are exported to Serbia with sources and developpers can add it to the Serbian CVP file.
I put it number of units from DEFUALUNIT file ?

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Re: T region group,East Europe Countries,Serbian teh tree.

#4 Post by Balthagor » Oct 22 2018

milivoje02 wrote:
Oct 22 2018
...And why there are not samo more units addet from ohter region (russia R and Europe E) to T regions ?...
The design decision was to only put into a region code units that were actually developed in those regions plus a few fictional units. There are lots of countries in the world who buy their equipment. Not every region needs every kind of unit.
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milivoje02
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Re: T region group,East Europe Countries,Serbian teh tree.

#5 Post by milivoje02 » Oct 22 2018

Balthagor wrote:
Oct 22 2018
milivoje02 wrote:
Oct 22 2018
...And why there are not samo more units addet from ohter region (russia R and Europe E) to T regions ?...
The design decision was to only put into a region code units that were actually developed in those regions plus a few fictional units. There are lots of countries in the world who buy their equipment. Not every region needs every kind of unit.
Yes. that is why I at the beginning wrote I pointed out that units that exist and which have been explored and developed in reality,they are even sold other countries,they are not included in arms or teh tree of Serbia. They were put in teh tree of Yuglsavija,although Serbia has developed them and placed them in their arms.
And by the way i mentioned T region codes is in the supreme ruler ultmate got a little innovation compared to the rest regional grops.In fact, it is more unit ejected from Tex tree T grop comparatively with T regions in Suprem ruler Gold edition.
When with one of the countries from T region goup you won the whole continent,It's logical that you should have a little better unit. And the main thing for me is the multitude of units :) That's why I love this game :)

milivoje02
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Re: T region group,East Europe Countries,Serbian teh tree.

#6 Post by milivoje02 » Oct 22 2018

I would suggest that these units will be added T region code and Serbia because some units really exist and some would be interesting to find in tex tree because there are a lot of important units that are such as 2486, "Altay and SU 34 multirol
excluded in the technological group in Suprem Ruler Ultimate.
units that should be added to T region code and Serbian army:
663, "BVT SR-8808 Lazar
761, "BVT SR-8811 Lazar II
826, "BVP M-90 AICV"
968, "BVP M-95 AICV"
2329, "M-84D
2486, "Altay
2541, "T-95B
2644, "K8A1
5605, "R-25 Vulkan
5610, "SA-4 Ganef
5710, "Buk-M3
7130, "Mi-24 Hind-A
11129, "NA-1 Kobac",
11112, "MiG-29S Fulcrum-C
11290, "MiG-41
15169, "Sutjeska
15190, "Osvetnik
15334, "S-821 Heroj
15350, "S-833 Sava
17975, "BB-1180 Imp. Marita

Just a suggestion to make T reion group more intrasting.
Best Regards!

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Re: T region group,East Europe Countries,Serbian teh tree.

#7 Post by YoMomma » Oct 23 2018

Mwah look at Trump 2018, they add NATO, but Russia, Iran and China are without allies. Im affraid they lost touch to the gameplay in their game.

If you can provide sources of Russia exporting those units to Serbia it will prolly increase the chance of them adding those units.

Anwyay ill look if i can add those in my mod so thanks for the list.
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Re: T region group,East Europe Countries,Serbian teh tree.

#8 Post by milivoje02 » Oct 23 2018

YoMomma wrote:
Oct 23 2018
Mwah look at Trump 2018, they add NATO, but Russia, Iran and China are without allies. Im affraid they lost touch to the gameplay in their game.

If you can provide sources of Russia exporting those units to Serbia it will prolly increase the chance of them adding those units.

Anwyay ill look if i can add those in my mod so thanks for the list.
Thanks for your reply,this short list are unit which was developed by Serbia and classified in Ygoslavia Teh tree.

663, "BVT SR-8808 Lazar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazar_3)
761, "BVT SR-8811 Lazar II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazar_3)
2329, "M-84D (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-84)
4741, "B-52K1 Nora 155mm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nora_B-52)
4721, "D-30/04 SORA 122mm ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sora_122mm )
7030, "SA-341 Gazelle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_A ... e#Aircraft ) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%A9rospatiale_Gazelle)
I also listed the links as evidence that they exist in Serbian army.

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Re: T region group,East Europe Countries,Serbian teh tree.

#9 Post by milivoje02 » Oct 23 2018

Balthagor wrote:
Oct 22 2018
milivoje02 wrote:
Oct 22 2018
...And why there are not samo more units addet from ohter region (russia R and Europe E) to T regions ?...
The design decision was to only put into a region code units that were actually developed in those regions plus a few fictional units. There are lots of countries in the world who buy their equipment. Not every region needs every kind of unit.
Thanks for your reply,this short list are unit which was developed by Serbia and classified in Ygoslavia Teh tree.

663, "BVT SR-8808 Lazar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazar_3)
761, "BVT SR-8811 Lazar II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazar_3)
2329, "M-84D (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-84)
4741, "B-52K1 Nora 155mm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nora_B-52)
4721, "D-30/04 SORA 122mm ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sora_122mm )
7030, "SA-341 Gazelle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_A ... e#Aircraft ) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%A9rospatiale_Gazelle)
I also listed the links as evidence that they exist in Serbian army.

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Re: T region group,East Europe Countries,Serbian teh tree.

#10 Post by Nerei » Oct 24 2018

I think half the problem stems from BG still not having added the Yugoslavia group to the Successor states arms selection. Likely this is a product of the Yugoslavia group being introduced long after 2020 and when 2020 was rolled into Ultimate they failed to properly update states such as Serbia.

That said keep in mind that as YoMomma said there is a limit to the number of possible tech-trees or region groups. There can be 255 different regions in a game but there are a hardcap of 31 region groups which forces some compromises.

In the case of Yugoslavia it could really be called Western Balkans or Yugoslavia and successor states. Personally my vote would be on "Western Balkans". It would cover the same area without being specifically tied to Yugoslavia and at this point group X really is more than just Yugoslavia.

Honestly though compared to some of the other groups the Yugoslavia group is fairly good and confined geographically.
BG just needs to use it properly and give Serbia and the rest access to it which would give Serbia, Croatia etc. more appropriate arms without giving it to Poland and Finland (seriously why is Finland Eastern Europe and not Northern?!) which adding equipment from the Yugoslavia group to Eastern Europe would do.

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Re: T region group,East Europe Countries,Serbian teh tree.

#11 Post by Zuikaku » Oct 24 2018

The only problem I can see with "Yugoslav region" states is that it still can use equipment from the T region group. Don't know why BGs don't disable this since X region now represent Yugoslavia and its successor states.

Also, I think that we do not want to mix production/research capacity and unit purchase. So, I don't see any sense giving desings that are not indigenous to X region (like MiG-29 which was only bought in limited numbers and never even considered for production).
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!

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Re: T region group,East Europe Countries,Serbian teh tree.

#12 Post by milivoje02 » Oct 24 2018

Nerei wrote:
Oct 24 2018
I think half the problem stems from BG still not having added the Yugoslavia group to the Successor states arms selection. Likely this is a product of the Yugoslavia group being introduced long after 2020 and when 2020 was rolled into Ultimate they failed to properly update states such as Serbia.

That said keep in mind that as YoMomma said there is a limit to the number of possible tech-trees or region groups. There can be 255 different regions in a game but there are a hardcap of 31 region groups which forces some compromises.

In the case of Yugoslavia it could really be called Western Balkans or Yugoslavia and successor states. Personally my vote would be on "Western Balkans". It would cover the same area without being specifically tied to Yugoslavia and at this point group X really is more than just Yugoslavia.

Honestly though compared to some of the other groups the Yugoslavia group is fairly good and confined geographically.
BG just needs to use it properly and give Serbia and the rest access to it which would give Serbia, Croatia etc. more appropriate arms without giving it to Poland and Finland (seriously why is Finland Eastern Europe and not Northern?!) which adding equipment from the Yugoslavia group to Eastern Europe would do.
That would be great,and probably a better solution.Just add to the state successor units of the X group.Probably all are classified because of USSR, and the difference in industrial development,and everyone except Finland are Slavs.

When will we see some new your design? They are very authentic :)
Regards.

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Re: T region group,East Europe Countries,Serbian teh tree.

#13 Post by milivoje02 » Oct 24 2018

Zuikaku wrote:
Oct 24 2018
The only problem I can see with "Yugoslav region" states is that it still can use equipment from the T region group. Don't know why BGs don't disable this since X region now represent Yugoslavia and its successor states.

Also, I think that we do not want to mix production/research capacity and unit purchase. So, I don't see any sense giving desings that are not indigenous to X region (like MiG-29 which was only bought in limited numbers and never even considered for production).
Interesting is the idea to put the states successors in this group,and let's not forget that the X group(yugoslavia) in the Cold War scenario,and state suucsesors are in World 2020 and Global Crises 2020 scenario. Probably should have been added another unit for the T group world 2020 i Global Crise 2020 scenario. Basically, I agree,then they should only be added to the group of some units from the T group that are futuristic because of the era in which the script will play.
That they would not mix production/research capacity I add links that these units are in reality are developed in Serbia army.
Best Regards!

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Re: T region group,East Europe Countries,Serbian teh tree.

#14 Post by YoMomma » Oct 25 2018

Excactly that, US can just build 70 of the most expensive strategic bombers, so i dont see why Serbia cant build units they are actually producing or importing (in big numbers) IRL, thats exactly how it was done alot in SR2020.
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Re: T region group,East Europe Countries,Serbian teh tree.

#15 Post by Nerei » Oct 25 2018

Serbia cannot build the vehicles they are actually producing due to BG making a mistake when converting the SR2020 CVP's to Ultimate. Basically they forgot to make the former Yugoslavia use region group X instead of T. All the unit designs where converted though which is half the problem.

Make that change and Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia all the rest of the Former Yugoslavia can research and build anything from that group which yes they should be able to. For Serbia that will actually go a long way towards covering its armed forces (assuming no designs are missing which I have not checked).

I see no reason why this should not be corrected as it is obviously an oversight.


For the rest of the needs of region groups like X I would honestly rather look towards prototypes (or paper designs) than move existing designs to that region group. Instead of adding Mig-29's there is the Yugoslavian Novi Avion project which could largely fill the same role. Add a few upgraded versions and it could probably cover the fighter jet need for a long period of time (I wonder if the NA-1 Kobac is supposed to represent this aircraft. Edit: It looks like it).

It also avoids situations like having the K8A1 which to me screams "It is a ROK tank that was moved to region group X because reasons". A worse example would be Venezuela developing the totally a Spanish named ship and definitely not a Japanese vessel added to region group O because reasons FF-401 Yugumo (BTW BG wrong name for a Japanese DE/FF).
If nothing else shift the stats around a bit, give it a proper name and you basically got the same process as gave Turkey the Altay. That vehicle has a lot of K2 BLack Panther in it but it is not a K2.

Also I would suggest looking towards countries like Iran for inspiration about what type of unit designs to add. Iran is developing things like tanks, multirole fighters, frigates and submarines with an odd Destroyer standing out. Not Super-Carriers, Battleships, Strategic bombers and hypersonic stealth fighters. (lets ignore the Qaher F-313 as all we have for that aircraft is what looks like a Hollywood model, video that could be a RC aircraft and photoshop of such a bad quality that I would not put my name on it).

It would also mean the region group would be capable without morphing into the US or Russia flying a different flag within a few years.

Yes it is more work than just moving designs around but producing alphabet soup designs like the VH-118 APC (ABEIJKLNOQSVW) or oddly placed units like the FF-401 Yugumo gives us the worst of both worlds. Designs that are specific yet used as generic units or units that feels like the sole reason they are there is because a unit of that type was needed there and this one was just on hand.
I'd personally rather just have generic vehicles than that.


As for when I will have more 3D models available that will hopefully by the end of the month although that will just be for modders to download. I cannot say if/when they might get added to the core game.

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