Impressions after playing 10 years in game

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Zuikaku
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Impressions after playing 10 years in game

#1 Post by Zuikaku » Oct 13 2018

So, these are mynotes taken during the 1914-1924 gameplay.

1. Research center building is doing well for now. US got 7 of them, China 4, UK 7, France 5... I just hope AI will now stop building them at some number or we will have a problem. How about setting limit on research centers if AI don't know how to stop building them. Is the number of research centers AI wants dependant on something (population?) or are they just randomly built?

2. Researching of the units is now satisfactory. AI do research new unit designs. Nice change, no complaints here for now.

3. Building of unit production facilities. AI is doing well by building them, but there are same concerns as with #1.

4. AI is somewhat bad at building airfields. It does build aibases when air production facilities are being built, but I'm not sure if it builds airfields at all.

5. Naval AI shows signs of intelligence. Much better than disaster before, but still needs improvements. Nice changes, though...

6. Espionage is great, especially AI activelly (over)using spies. I'm having more troubles with sabouters than bombardments :D

7. Military goods production is inadequate. This needs some serious tweaking. Wars were left dead in the water by production at 1/10 of the needs. I used trainer ( :oops: ) to add MGs to all AI major powers and wars immediatelly turned out to be very interesting, vivid and surprisingly good. So, I strongly suggest increasing MGs output.

8. AI not building roads (issue in '14/17 games after longer gameplay)
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!

YoMomma
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Re: Impressions after playing 10 years in game

#2 Post by YoMomma » Oct 14 2018

I was playing S. Africa 2018 Trump scenario. Blietzkrieged to Egypt annexing everything in my way. Time i was in Egypt i had 64 research centers... No AI dont know when to stop, went thru Israel, Iran, Pakistan, then had 114 research centers. Russia got Europe and about the same number of research centers.... You only need freaking 10 with the right priorities for your region. Iran had like 30 research centers 4 years in the game.
Gameplay 1st

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Zuikaku
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Re: Impressions after playing 10 years in game

#3 Post by Zuikaku » Oct 14 2018

YoMomma wrote:
Oct 14 2018
I was playing S. Africa 2018 Trump scenario. Blietzkrieged to Egypt annexing everything in my way. Time i was in Egypt i had 64 research centers... No AI dont know when to stop, went thru Israel, Iran, Pakistan, then had 114 research centers. Russia got Europe and about the same number of research centers.... You only need freaking 10 with the right priorities for your region. Iran had like 30 research centers 4 years in the game.
That is not good. So, I can expect some sort of unbearable AI research frenzy in my game. What a waste of AI resouces!! I guess AI will be researching '90s techs by '50s |O
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!

Buzzbrad
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Re: Impressions after playing 10 years in game

#4 Post by Buzzbrad » Oct 14 2018

Thanks for the feedback after such a long game. I will pass it on to the team and see if I can get you answers to some of your questions. We did do an update to the AI building research centers over the summer.

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Zuikaku
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Re: Impressions after playing 10 years in game

#5 Post by Zuikaku » Oct 14 2018

Looking forward for any feedback.
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!

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Re: Impressions after playing 10 years in game

#6 Post by dax1 » Oct 15 2018

Buzzbrad wrote:
Oct 14 2018
[...] We did do an update to the AI building research centers over the summer.
yes...now it work!! also AI work in this way!!
now the problem is : when region annex other, the number of research centers increases a lot.
Con forza ed ardimento

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George Geczy
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Re: Impressions after playing 10 years in game

#7 Post by George Geczy » Oct 15 2018

Thanks for the feedback! Some notes below:
Zuikaku wrote:
Oct 13 2018
So, these are mynotes taken during the 1914-1924 gameplay.

1. Research center building is doing well for now. US got 7 of them, China 4, UK 7, France 5... I just hope AI will now stop building them at some number or we will have a problem. How about setting limit on research centers if AI don't know how to stop building them. Is the number of research centers AI wants dependant on something (population?) or are they just randomly built?
The AI building of research centres is generally tuned to AI regions on a region-by-region basis, based on their population, GDP, treasury, etc. So if France continues to be just France, the number of research centres should make sense for a long term game. The issues mentioned above by dax1 and yomomma are what happens when regions fall and are combined - if this happens to a human player, yes, you will end up with a lot of excess research centres, and it is up to you to scrap the ones you don't need. (I suppose we could add a minister priority to manage this automatically, but there isn't one at present.) For AI regions that end up with merged regions (annexation etc) this is an issue because I don't think that the AI considers scrapping them. So yes, an aggressive AI that takes over a number of other regions in later games could end up with too many.
2. Researching of the units is now satisfactory. AI do research new unit designs. Nice change, no complaints here for now.
:-)
3. Building of unit production facilities. AI is doing well by building them, but there are same concerns as with #1.
Given the fact that bigger regions often have more bases, the combining of unit facilities in annexed regions hasn't generally been a problem, but I suppose in some cases it could be. I've made a note to take a look at how the AI handles "too many" bases.
4. AI is somewhat bad at building airfields. It does build aibases when air production facilities are being built, but I'm not sure if it builds airfields at all.
Hmmm... good question, I've made note to look at it. Airfields do make nice supply sources.
5. Naval AI shows signs of intelligence. Much better than disaster before, but still needs improvements. Nice changes, though...
We've worked on it in the summer 2018 updates so glad it's paying off a bit. Yes, still more work to be done, there is very poor fleet/escort behavior, and no effective use of aircraft carriers yet.
6. Espionage is great, especially AI activelly (over)using spies. I'm having more troubles with sabouters than bombardments :D
8)
7. Military goods production is inadequate. This needs some serious tweaking. Wars were left dead in the water by production at 1/10 of the needs. I used trainer ( :oops: ) to add MGs to all AI major powers and wars immediatelly turned out to be very interesting, vivid and surprisingly good. So, I strongly suggest increasing MGs output.
Seems like we spend a lot of time tweaking output up and then down and then up and etc. We made some major improvements in the summer updates for games that went from 1936 into the modern era by fixing the progression of game engine values (the Cold War maps use a slightly inconsistent set of values because of their earlier design). Since this WW1 era you're talking about, there was an intention to have finished goods shortages because that was a real world thing as nations were in the midst up modernizing, but maybe we should take a closer look.
8. AI not building roads (issue in '14/17 games after longer gameplay)
I still would prefer more of these to be added using scripted events so that they could be realistic to history, but yes this is a popular request. It is expected to get some attention at some point.

-- George.

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Re: Impressions after playing 10 years in game

#8 Post by SGTscuba » Oct 15 2018

George Geczy wrote:
Oct 15 2018

5. Naval AI shows signs of intelligence. Much better than disaster before, but still needs improvements. Nice changes, though...
We've worked on it in the summer 2018 updates so glad it's paying off a bit. Yes, still more work to be done, there is very poor fleet/escort behavior, and no effective use of aircraft carriers yet.
7. Military goods production is inadequate. This needs some serious tweaking. Wars were left dead in the water by production at 1/10 of the needs. I used trainer ( :oops: ) to add MGs to all AI major powers and wars immediatelly turned out to be very interesting, vivid and surprisingly good. So, I strongly suggest increasing MGs output.
Seems like we spend a lot of time tweaking output up and then down and then up and etc. We made some major improvements in the summer updates for games that went from 1936 into the modern era by fixing the progression of game engine values (the Cold War maps use a slightly inconsistent set of values because of their earlier design). Since this WW1 era you're talking about, there was an intention to have finished goods shortages because that was a real world thing as nations were in the midst up modernizing, but maybe we should take a closer look.

-- George.
Nice to hear that the naval AI is getting some love and we may see proper carrier use at some point. I had noticed the AI being different in its behaviour at sea, and even the odd carrier with planes on it. Have you seen my suggestions on potential behaviour elsewhere on the forum?

I'm wondering if the military goods thing is related to the same problem I have in my long term games - no matter how many facilities I build, production doesn't seem to go up by much, even if I build several times the amount of facilities and put them in good supply etc. I think something must have happened along the way where what a building should produce is somehow fudged.
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Zuikaku
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Re: Impressions after playing 10 years in game

#9 Post by Zuikaku » Oct 15 2018

Thank you for the feedback, Balth. It looks promising and optimistic in the long run.
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!

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Balthagor
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Re: Impressions after playing 10 years in game

#10 Post by Balthagor » Oct 15 2018

Zuikaku wrote:
Oct 15 2018
Thank you for the feedback, Balth...
Sadly, I can't take the credit ;)
George Geczy wrote:
Oct 15 2018
Thanks for the feedback! Some notes below...
Chris Latour
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chris@battlegoat.com

SGTscuba
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Re: Impressions after playing 10 years in game

#11 Post by SGTscuba » Oct 16 2018

Balthagor wrote:
Oct 15 2018
Zuikaku wrote:
Oct 15 2018
Thank you for the feedback, Balth...
Sadly, I can't take the credit ;)
George Geczy wrote:
Oct 15 2018
Thanks for the feedback! Some notes below...
I don't know about that, you usually pass on info for us.
My SR:U Model Project, get the latest and post suggestions here:

http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=28040

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Zuikaku
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Re: Impressions after playing 10 years in game

#12 Post by Zuikaku » Oct 16 2018

Balthagor wrote:
Oct 15 2018
Zuikaku wrote:
Oct 15 2018
Thank you for the feedback, Balth...
Sadly, I can't take the credit ;)
George Geczy wrote:
Oct 15 2018
Thanks for the feedback! Some notes below...
Like SGTScuba said, when I see red letters in the nickname I automatically presume it is you (Balthagor). :D
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!

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Re: Impressions after playing 10 years in game

#13 Post by SGTscuba » Oct 22 2018

Is there any chance the Goats will look at the economy alongside the upgrades for the AI?
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http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=28040

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Re: Impressions after playing 10 years in game

#14 Post by Sigma » Nov 01 2018

I'm really hoping they eventually get around to adding the ability to release/create countries and rebellions, since that hurts replayability when you're trying to play a long game. :C

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Re: Impressions after playing 10 years in game

#15 Post by Kristijonas » Nov 05 2018

Sigma wrote:
Nov 01 2018
I'm really hoping they eventually get around to adding the ability to release/create countries and rebellions, since that hurts replayability when you're trying to play a long game. :C
This is my no.1 concern as well, as I like to play really long games (10-50 years) and it usually becomes too static.

Perhaps certain scripts could be run to make countries release vassals or free states if their military/domestic approval is really low (or under other rare conditions)?

It would also be nice if smaller countries would be building more military goods and fabrication facilities as well. In certain scenarios some countries have 0 units (not sure if they traded the few they got off or what) and it quite breaks immersion. This was extremely apparent in my 1936 Lithuanian AAR for example:
viewtopic.php?f=94&t=23694
Latvia, Danzing and Estonia had absolute 0 of troops. I think they didn't have garrisons either. They probably had 0 fabrication as well or traded their units away? Anyhow, 0 shots fired when I annexed them.

I really like small countries giving a good fight. And small countries is what really makes the game fluid and dynamic, I strongly believe.

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